Kings is now a 5-point talent in tier one protection. Guardian's Favor and Stoicism have been moved to tier two. No more deboubt. Improved Blessing of Might is a 2-point talent in tier 2.

anyone seen the recent changes? Jotw now grants "20% of your maximum mana" + the previous ability meaning it would scale even with holy gear which could make a possible spec for holy paladins? (38 points in holy) Healing would be gimped theres no doubt about that but even with the BC mana pool of around 10K that would be 2K mana every 8 seconds = 1250 mp5 + the 0.5% mana per second. Said holy paladin would also have 8% more spell crit + dps utility (specing into auras + imp buffs ) and 10% off holy shock and and hand spells. I do not have a beta key nor do i know how raids will be tuned but from the mana returns off Jotw alone it seems that there is a possibility of this working out? or is my logic flawed

Art of war changed again, to add crit strike damage to CS, DS and Judgements and reduce FoL cast time by .1 seconds. Sheathe moved up to Tier 9.

The change to Kings was expected by me, since the devs did the same thing to Rogues' Relentless Strikes ability, an 11 point talent that everyone should have.

Now a Holy Pally can get Kings and Conviction, and still get the PvE goodies. It does nerf PvP Pallies (cannot get Sheath).

An outstanding change is buffing Benediction, now it is useful to all specs since everyone useful instant spells a lot.

Benediction is simply amazing. The consolidation of some of the tanking abilities is wonderful too.

The new ret tree is really impressive too. They nerfed Vengeance down to 9% but gave us a 3% all damage modifier on Crusade. Result: overall increase.

I'm pleased, though the lack of changes to holy is... meh.

EDIT: Righteous Vengeance still blows. It sure is nice to get some more Critical Damage bonus spread onto Art of War too.

EDIT 2: Oh wow.

* Glyph of Seal of Blood -- Your Seal of Blood or Seal of the Martyr increases the mana received from Spiritual Attunement by 10% while active.
* Glyph of Seal of Righteousness -- Reduces the cost of your Judgement spells by 10% while Seal of Righteousness is active.
* Glyph of Seal of Vengeance -- Your Seal of Vengeance or Seal of Corruption also grants 10 expertise while active.

That SoB glyph is borderline overpowered. We're encouraged to hurt ourselves.

Edit: Beaten by forgetting to check for a new page.

Even with Judgments of the Wise at Tier 7, I suspect that 38/0/33 is STILL a better healing spec than straight Holy.

The -0.1 seconds is odd. 1 point gives -0.75, so you'd expect 2 points to give -1.5s. Instant FoLs for Retribution would be pretty huge.

I agree with you except with this. With the new JotW and Divine Plea, I don't see the need for more mana for Ret.

Also this is only group-friendly, solo it is worthless.

You underestimate Beacon of Light.

Changes I've noticed so far.

Holy

Healing Light- Effect now applies to Holy Shock as well.
Holy Guidance- Effect reduced to 4/8/12/16/20% of intellect to Spell Power (from 6/12/18/24/30%).

Protection

Blessing of Kings- Moved to Tier 1. Effected reduced to 2% all stats (from 10%).
Improved Blessing of Kings- New! Increases the effect of your Blessing of Kings by 2/4/6/8%
Shield Spec- Removed
Spell Warding- Removed
Redoubt- Moved to Tier 8, effect combined with Shield Spec.
1-handed weapon spec- Effect increased to 2/4/6/8/10% increased damage (from 1/2/3/4/5%).
Combat Expertise- Now increases Stamina by 2/4/6% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) but grants 2/4/6 Expertise (up from 1/2/3/4/5) and 2/4/6% critical strike chance.
Guarded by the Light- Now reduces all spell damage taken by 3/6% in addition to the old effect.

Retribution

Benediction- Now reduces the mana cost of all instant abilities by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Deflection- Moved to Tier 1
Improved Blessing of Might- Moved to Tier 2. Now increases the effect of Blessing of Might by 13/25% (was 5/10/15/20/25%).
Pursuit of Justice- Now provides Disarm duration reduction instead of spell miss chance.
Sanctified Seals- Moved to Tier 4.
Crusade- Now provides a flat 1/2/3% damage increase in addition to the old effect.
Divine Purpose- Moved to Tier 4. Effect of Art of War (HoF stun removal) replaces snare reduction.
Vengeance- Reduced to 1/2/3% damage increase stacking 3 times (from 1/2/3/4/5% damage increase).
Improved Retribution Aura- Moved to Tier 6.
Art of War- Moved to Tier 7. Now increases critical strike damage bonus of Divine Storm, Judgement and Crusader Strike by 10/20% and your critical hits from these abilities reduce the cast time of Flash of Light by .75/1.5 seconds.
Judgements of the Wise- Now restores 20% of your mana in addition to the old effect.
Sheath of Light- Moved to Tier 9.

Now it's time for Eredar Twins. Be right back!

Unless they change Beacon of Light to heal the beacon for 100% of your healing instead of how it works now, where it ignores overheal and only heals for effective heal, then I doubt I'm underestimating it. Taking JotW lets you stack as much spell haste as you can possibly get and spam max rank Holy Light forever, while never running out of mana.

1H spec got doubled in effect. People are reporting that Shield of the Righteous got buffed to 240% BV.

Seems to be a lot more damage all-in-all. I think the initial Naxx results must have spooked them.

Spell Warding is now baked into Guarded of the Light, and is 6% less spell damage.

JotW gives 20% of your Total Mana, which is an important note (it scales with more Int).

Judgements of the Wise change is most likely the most significant change this push. With a 15,000 mana pool, you'll get 450mp5 by Judging every 8 seconds or 375mp5 by Judging every 10 seconds. That's pretty much spells infinite mana for Holy/Shockadins.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 Vs. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 assuming that The Art of War is supposed to give instant cast FoL; Shockadin in PvP


http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 for Ret

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...13251033312321 for Prot

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 for Holy (JotW)

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000 for Holy (Beacon)


Now all Paladins have to do is wait for a reason to go deep Holy instead of going down the new and improved Ret tree.

If it was instant you could heal on the move, I guess they want you to stop. Sort of like the warlock "instant" pet summon.

Ret won't be picking up Seals of the Pure. Vengeance and Righteousness had their damage reduced.

Instant casts also don't effect your swing timer. It still seems nice given the Sheath of Light talent and how high your crit chance with it is going to be.

I'm overall happy with the changes although the changes to the early Retribution talents are far too good for Holy to be able to keep Guardian's Favor anymore(at least for PvE), especially since Rets/Prots can spec Kings(Holy can now easily spec both Imp Might and Wisdom).

Also looks like Divine storm only costs 12% base mana instead of 20% base mana

The question is, was the damage changed? The tooltip continues to be strangely devoid of any info about how much damage it does.

I am thinking this will be the standard for pvp retadins if art of war is suppose to give instant casts FoL

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...00000000000000

Why wouldn't Ret pick up Seals of the Pure in a PvE build? Not like they have more than 61-62 DPS talents in Ret anyways, the rest is just utility fluff or DPS talents in Holy/Prot. At least it looks like having the extra damage from Seals of the Pure would come in handy when off-tanking at the very least. Otherwise you'd just dump the extra talent points into PvP talents, which may be more appealing to a lot of people.



Wouldn't Fanaticism outweigh Toughness simply because of 25% more crit for more instant cast FoL? And the points in Imp. BoM are dubious at best, possibly better spent in Toughness or Imp Ret Aura.



Also a question: how hard is it for a melee class (or Hunter pets) to kill Ret Paladins who slap on a shield and wear them down with Ret aura and Judgements? Or how hard would it be with these changes?

i dunno, i think that might be a typo or an oversight. Will know for sure when i can patch and check it out.

and yes, Divine Storm mana cost reduced from 20% base to 12% base mana. The damage will be the same (100% weapon damage as holy damage basically)