thedopefishlives

The only problem I see with this is, of course, the caster weapon. Currently my weapon makes up over 50% of my spell damage, weighing in at a hefty 245 SD. ~1200 unbuffed stamina yields 360 SD, which means the caster weapon would comprise ~40% of my spell damage if I kept it. The real theorycrafting question is, is that ~40% spell damage a greater asset to threat than the threat I would gain from a high-dps warrior tank weapon with the Hammer?

 

GSH

Well, SoJ is currently pretty bugged, so take this with a very large grain of salt.

If you go SoJ->JoJ, you hit the mob for some Holy damage. It was maybe 75% of the JoR damage I was doing. I was quite surprised when looking at my log to see Holy damage, given that my active Seal was SoJ.

It's possible that Blizz is adding an instant damage component to SoL/W/J, but haven't added it to SoL/W yet while they are still fixing SoJ. Or maybe SoJ is just bugged like crazy.

 

Saltycracker

Just a quick question regarding Sheath of Light and crit rating.

I know spell hit and melee hit have been rolled into one, is the same thing true for melee crit and spell crit. This is the only way I can see SoL being useful for Retadins.

 

Fordel

It's all one crit rate now, yes.

Random WoTLK item for example: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...reitem_038.jpg

-Bird of the Storm

 

◊ Cathela

Switching from a spelldamage weapon to a slow high-dps melee weapon will lower your cons/HS dps, and probably your seal/judgement damage, have no effect on your shield damage, and be a big boost to your hammer damage. Without knowing exactly how much threat each of those components is responsible for, we don't know which will be better.

I would expect a "real" weapon to be better than a spelldamage weapon for 1-3 targets (if it's not, what was the point of all these changes?) but I could see that a spelldamage weapon would be better for massive-AoE-tanking situations (Morogrim Murlocs, Felmyst skeletons, etc).

That's assuming no unexpected mechanics changes like Cons scaling with AP or whatever.

Yeah I would assume they're still working on it. What I was commenting on was just that the fact that SoL's judgement effect is JoL is completely irrelevant now. If you have SoL up, you'll get JoL if and only if you actually cast JoL.

If they do attach instant effects to judging SoL/SoW/SoJ, I wonder if it'll be just damage or something more appropriate to the seals, like an instant burst of health/mana for SoL and SoW. And if they go that way, what could they attach to judging SoJ that would be appropriate without being overpowered?

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

flyingtoastr

Ratings have been rolled into one. So instead of "increases melee crit rating by 22" you'll see "increases crit rating by 22" and it will apply to both. For things like talents and buffs you'll have to check them specifically.

EDIT: here is a nice picture.

Making JoW return a small percentage of your total mana would help greatly with mana longevity with all the specs. The only problem you would run into is having multiple people trying to use JoW and not keeping JoL up on the mob. I would assume JoL could then return a small burst of health, but what would JoJ do? Snare effect? Spell interrupt? Extra damage?

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

Saltycracker

Sick! Thanks both of you for checking this for me.

 

Saltycracker

In terms of Ret Utility, I am assuming a Holy Paladin can pick up 5/5 BoM, and 2/2 BoW. The healing talents in Ret seem too good to pass up, so if a HPally goes to a X/0/X spec, I have no problem going 0/11/60 to pick up kings and be in charge of that buff. That seems to get the best of both worlds.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

 

◊ etrnl

So with Beacon of Light, the healing from that is attributed towards the target of the spell (like PoM). Does this mean the more people within the 10yd radius, the more threat? If so, that would be an amazing spell to use constantly on a melee intensive raid (BoL, Misdirect, PoM... damn).

 

Amera

My main pressing issue at the moment is trying to decide if all these subtle additions are actually going to make us competitive with priests and druids as arena healers. I'm very disappointed we didn't get a cyclone/mana burn equivalent - something offensive that punishes people for leaving us alone, and gives us something to do while locked out. BoS is also most likely a huge nerf for PvP, since you are looking at 12/120 seconds worth of CC protection coverage, and it can still be dispelled. Everything we have is still easily counterable by mana burns and dispels, which is very frustrating.

All that being said, the buff to Holy Shock + Infusion of Light would be a huge boon in 2s, where you can probably just run around holy shocking to keep your partner up, and then dropping instant HLs to avoid lockouts. The duration reduction on fear and such should help also.

 

GSH

It would be a lot easier if we stopped using the word Judgement when referring to the effect generated by the active Seal. I suggest calling it "unleashing" after the Seal tooltip.

For example, if unleashing Seal of Wisdom gives mana back, it does not matter which Judgement you use, so there would be no issues with multiple people trying to use JoW.

 

Celebrimor

Look at Flourish:
Flourish - Spell - World of Warcraft

Its a totally different aura, with the paladin it says "Apply area aura" and with the druid "Apply aura", so to me it looks like its stackable. Also if thats not the case flourish will outperform the paladin one in almost every occasion.

 

◊ etrnl

Haven't paid attention to the Druid WotLK talk yet, but is Flourish another spells that attributes healing done by the spell to the target?

 

Celebrimor

Were do anyone say that the healing done by the paladin spell is atributed to the target? Anyone who knows what he is talking about that is.

 

◊ Cathela

Tanking blues:

Helm
Gloves
Shield

All have strength. Defense rating appears to still exist. The shield is the only one with block rating (granted, with a sample size of only 3 items so far.)

Was this also with zero talent points?

Ah. Well that definitely changes things. I still think it needs a bit of a buff, but the stackability gives it a very cool and unique dimension (assuming that it can be stacked effectively).

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

flyingtoastr

Because other targeted heal abilities such as PoM and Lifebloom act this way.

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

GSH

Yes. Haven't spent any talent points yet. I'm waiting until I get a good handle on the new Seal/Judgement system.

 

Siddown

I don't want to say you are wrong simply because I am not in Beta and you obviously are, but are you sure? This is contrary to the video posted by Coag in the WotLK Paladin Forums. He's got a video with him doing nothing but judging with no active seal. I'd verify, but the netnanny at the office blocks the WoW Forums. I'll check when I get home, if I'm wrong I'll edit the post.

 

Celebrimor

But those spells got scripted effects while beacon of light do not, beacon of light only got that aura, and such spells never wrongly gives someone else credit for the effects. Otherwise all hots would always give credit to someone else.

 

Unir

I have this question also - thanks for doing the testing but are you sure the three judgment spells required a seal to fire first? Coag had indicated they didn't.

If they do, that additional priming and GCD makes Enlightened Judgments / Judgments of the Pure even more unattractive to Holy healers in my mind.

 

◊ Cathela

Sweet. That means with talents we're looking at 1 block value per 1.33 strength.

I think the answer is "BoL will generate threat for whoever the devs want it to generate threat for."

I'm looking at the video now and he seems to have SoW up for the entire fight.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Celebrimor

And since the others are bugs due to scriptings and there is nowhere mentioned in the spell or any confirms that it gives threat to the target I would say that untill then we can assume that it gives threat to the caster.

 

◊ etrnl

I can't remember where I saw that, it could be that I was getting mixed up from Hand of Purity, because I know for sure the heal from that is attributed towards the target. But something about this spell makes me think that its mechanic is the same.

 

• Theras

No. It isn't safe to assume that. That's Cathela's entire point: expansions will change the rules, so you can never assume that the rules will stay the same for a new kind of mechanic. Before Burning Crusade, were there any mainline heals that assigned threat to the person healed? Nope, but Prayer of Mending sure does that. It's pointless to discuss that aspect of the ability until we know more, since for all we know it could be a threatless heal, it could assign the threat to the people healed, it could assign threat to the beacon itself, or frankly it could assign threat to my mother* if Blizzard really wanted it to. We just don't know.

* Not that they would. My mother is a saint.

 

Hulabaloon

Isn't Hand of Purity now called Sacred Shield? If so, then I don't think it's really a heal - my impression of it is that it's more like a Power Word:Shield.

"Sacred Shield: Each time the target takes damage they gain a Sacred Shield, absorbing 500 damage. They cannot gain this effect more than once every 6 seconds."

If this is the case it's very disappointing - no mana return for tankadins, no rage for Warriors.