I'm not gonna lie, that sucks. I frikin love that glyph.

Doesn't change a thing given that you still have to judge every 20 seconds to keep your Judgement up. In a 3 pally situation its a buff, anything less than that and it's still just as "meh".

I'm going to guess that now that Holy Shock is utterly worthless it is once again going to be worth dumping points down Ret for healing, a la nyah. JotW is still a decent mana return (better than the shit that is Divine Plea) and the Sheath HoT can be the "moving heal" to replace Holy Shock. It also gives some CC (Repentance) and fun other utilities (Art of War combined with Fanatisism and Holy crit gear can lead to a fair amount of insta-FoL's, Pursuit of Justice is always wonderful).

I'm really sick of the PvE nerfs for PvP. This one really peeves me because IoL was really really fun.

I'm reminded of 1.1 MC raiding. "SPEC FOR ILLUMINATION THEN GO RET!"

Most of the nerf Holy Paladin in Arena threads seemed to be complaining about Jotw . The same mechanics of Season 1 to 4 that as resilience improved the survivability of other healer clases they would become superior stil exist. They are still extremely vulnerable to spell lock and cc.

Their is no mechanic to maintain seals. If raid wants seals maintained in a 2 Paladin raid then the Holy Paladin is going to be wacking the mob every 20 seconds.. A 7 pt talent cost to do something that was given for free seemed a very heavy cost but it at least sort of made sense.

I had played a bit more on ptr as Holy and it was starting to grow on me asuming that beacon was bugged, Divine plea was bugged and Jotp would be improved in a meaningful way. Is it much of a upgrade from our current tree? No but blizzard seemed to have been equally unfair to other healers as well. But Divine plea has proven to a wrong tooltip and considering how long the bugs with beacon have been around it may be another case of just change the tooltip and call it working. Unfortunately all this patch does is make the ret healing abilities look stronger not weaker.

If they want Jotp to be taken something like your seal duration is increased by 10 seconds per point. ie at 5 pts your seal lasts 1 mi and 10 seconds

Ok Blizz makes no sense.

I've actually come the the conclusion that they are confusing holy Priests with holy Paladins. There is actually no other explanation.

For example: Divine Plea. Blizz have stated that paladins are going to be the tank healer, and someone else can do raid heals. It sucks, but thats their design philosophy. Yet in order to cast divine plea, the tank is without 1 healer for 15 seconds. To pop this every cooldown, paladins take a 25% hit to total healing. Yet what penalty is there for Innervate? Shadowfiend? Water Shield? Standing and regenning 500mp5 when not casting? On top of all the other classes having superior mana regen abilities (baseline, not talented) they all have a much wider range of available heals.

All i can say is... spec ret. its what uther wanted.

Wow. As a Holy Paladin, I must say that the recent changes are inexplicable. Flyingtoastr could be correct that Sheathbot is the spec to be as a _healer_. Question, though, Toastr. If that's true, why not dump 1% Holy Power to gain Crusader Strike? It gives another chance to proc AoW, or is the build not expecting to melee?

I must be very bad, for I see nothing good coming out of this change.

The Infusion change is a massive PvP nerf. We are currently the weakest PvP healer in most respects, and needed some serious mobility/utility to change that. We didn't get anything like mana burn or cyclone to make us dangerous to ignore, and now our best mobility option is gone. It's really disappointing.

As it stands now, DPS got an enormous boost in PvP, while healing is pretty weak in its current form. This will just add to that. I'm not sure if this is an intentional design shift on the part of the Devs or not to try and weaken the overall power of healing in the metagame and make it more DPS heavy or not.

Eh, CS doesn't give any healing while 1% more crit is decent, but like I said on the beta forums CS is a great little soloing tool that could work out. I'm not honestly expecting many pallys to be healing if the tree doesn't get a massive overhaul soon.

Well, I can see a fundamental problem. We should be made a best single target healer (for PvE) without being OP in arenas. They can't fix it. If our HPS/burst is big then PvP palas are too strong. If it's small - then PvE palas suck...

Rasputin: This is going to be slightly bitter, but Paladins do have an ability to heal multiple people at once. It's called Divine Storm. ><

This is making no sense to me. This is the equivalent of making Priests spec past Shadowform in the Shadow tree to do the best healing they can. I'm tending to think that they have indeed confused Priests and Paladins here. Anyone noticed anything similar in the Shaman/Druid Resto tree?

I would expect the large base of non raiding paladins to still be healing just not holy. The can run around soloing at with good dps, If a normal 5 man is lfm healer then they are fine to put on a holy set. Heroics would just be a matter of the skill level as the only ability that makes a signficant improvement is Beacon. I could see it being a fun,popular playstyle. What its not is raiding holy.

Ngita: While I'm not disagreeing with you, what you've stated is more or less Blizzard's desire to be able to have any healing class heal a 5-man in any spec. If a Retribution Paladin can heal as well as a 'Holy Paladin' by putting on different gear, and if 'Holy Paladins' cannot raid heal...

The conclusion is that the Holy tree serves no purpose as far as defining a spec. That is incredibly disheartening.

Just wow, my condolences go to Holy Paladins. I'd love to find something here to say along the lines of "hey stop whining it's not so bad", but I'm at a loss of words this time. Holy just went from "somewhat weak" to "stupid".

I'd really have to scratch my head in confusion if someone asked me what Holy Paladins have to "look forward to" come WotLK in this state. IoL was the main key stone that everything revolved around. The main bragging point that gave the feeling that "hey here's an upgrade in WotLK". It just went from awesome mobility buff to random mediocre throughput gimmick that you can't really depend on anywhere where it counts.

And Divine Plea, the best solution at this point would be to change the description to: "Holy Paladin becomes a useless Sack of Potatoes for the next 15 seconds".

Cards on the table, what's left for Holy going from level 70 pre-3.0 to level 80 WotLK?

-Buff to HS
-BoL
-Long range Judgements
-10% Haste

That's it?

And why would they move completely the opposite direction in what needs to be done and nerf a tree where almost everybody seems to think it needs more desirability?

I've stopped being Holy by trade for some time now and it won't be my spec of choice in WotLK either so I would have no personal gain in buffs to Holy, but I really have to say at this point: It looks pretty dire and I hope something very significant is coming down the line for Holy to make up for all this.



How is this a "nice buff"? It was 50% initially and 200% of the initial effect over 15 seconds. You have your information crossed somewhere.


Edit: I stand corrected about Holy Guidance (passing comment was made in haste).