WotLK talent trees/abilities discussion - Page 41

Lateolocutus · 07/23/08, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dram

Judgement of the Wise is very potent with the current strength of damage dealing judgements. Also JoW (the debuff) now scales with Attack Power and Spell Power.

Can you clarify how this works? IE, the mana returned scales with your spellpower / AP?

Are there equations for how the return scales yet?

flyingtoastr · 07/23/08, 4:41 PM

Turn Evil - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fear - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fairly safe to assume Turn Evil is a fear effect.

Theras · 07/23/08, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by Lateolocutus

Can you clarify how this works? IE, the mana returned scales with your spellpower / AP?

Are there equations for how the return scales yet?

Checking Coriel's post history in this very thread will give you the answer you seek.

• Chicken · 07/23/08, 4:44 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Turn Evil - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fear - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fairly safe to assume Turn Evil is a fear effect.

Death Coil is also listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear", and does nevertheless bypass abilities like Will of the Forsaken and Berserker Rage. So as others said, we really just need someone to test this.

Edit: Did find a confirmation Death Knights definitely count as undead while under the effects of Lichborne, a Priest can cast Shackle Undead on them. WoW Forums -> Lichborne check the fourth post. Unfortunately that still leaves our fear dilemma in place, though it does confirm Holy Wrath and Exorcism being usable.

Milou · 07/23/08, 4:55 PM

Originally Posted by GSH

More preliminary results:

Seal of Light: Health gained = 28% * AP + 28% * SP

Seal of Wisdom: Mana gained = 14% * AP + 14% * SP

Judgement of Light proc: Health gained = 18% * AP + 18% * SP

Judgment of Wisdom proc: Mana gained = 9% * AP + 9% * SP

Edit: Heh, guess I'll go find a cudgel. Also, for all of these, there doesn't appear to be any base amount of health/mana/damage. So far, it looks entirely dependent on your AP and SP.

Edit: Added clarification about JoL/W.

I am obviously completely missing how these formulas work. Here is what I interpret this as, and the numbers are completely non-sensical.

Attack Power: 4000 (in combat attack power)

JoL: 4000*0.18+4000*0.3*0.18 = 1920 healing per proc. Not possible, so I am looking at this wrong.

Thank you for any clarification.

Revith · 07/23/08, 5:02 PM

Originally Posted by Milou

I am obviously completely missing how these formulas work. Here is what I interpret this as, and the numbers are completely non-sensical.

Attack Power: 4000 (in combat attack power)

JoL: 4000*0.18+4000*0.3*0.18 = 1920 healing per proc. Not possible, so I am looking at this wrong.

Thank you for any clarification.

I don't think your math is correct.

4000*0.18 + 4000*0.3*0.18 = 720 + 216 = 936.

Theras · 07/23/08, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Milou

I am obviously completely missing how these formulas work. Here is what I interpret this as, and the numbers are completely non-sensical.

Attack Power: 4000 (in combat attack power)

JoL: 4000*0.18+4000*0.3*0.18 = 1920 healing per proc. Not possible, so I am looking at this wrong.

Thank you for any clarification.

That'd be because 4000*0.18+4000*0.3*0.18 = 936, not 1920. That seems a bit more reasonable now, doesn't it?

Milou · 07/23/08, 5:23 PM

Originally Posted by Theras

That'd be because 4000*0.18+4000*0.3*0.18 = 936, not 1920. That seems a bit more reasonable now, doesn't it?

/facepalm

Apparently it helps to actually do that final multiplication (0.18) who would've thunk it? But 936 is still abnormally high for such a high proc, considering it currently procs for 95 I agree it needs to be buffed but not to these levels.

kidvid · 07/23/08, 5:34 PM

How does this look?

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Paladin -> Talent Calculator

+has may of the good defense skill: fear, stun, poison, disease reduction, dodge, parry, conc aura
+has all of the good +spell crit skills
+has sheath of light
+has infusion of light for holy light instant cast

-lacks kings
-lacks imp bop
-lacks divine illumination (I actually find this very useful in the arena)
-lacks light's grace (of questionable value with the new holy shock/instant holy light mechanic)
-only 3/5 holy guidance -- hopefully counterbalanced by the AP to SP conversion from sheath of light

The reason I'm toying around with this build is because I think stun is a huge factor in pvp, and the 30% stun duration reduction of stoicism is, IMHO, godly.

Thoughts?

Milou · 07/23/08, 5:40 PM

Kidvid, I personally find it too expensive to spread out your talents as such. If you're after Sheath of Light to me it requires to bypass the Protection tree. Also like I mentioned before, Improved Might is far more valuable than Benediction in my opinion.

GSH · 07/23/08, 5:54 PM

Originally Posted by Milou

/facepalm

Apparently it helps to actually do that final multiplication (0.18) who would've thunk it? But 936 is still abnormally high for such a high proc, considering it currently procs for 95 I agree it needs to be buffed but not to these levels.

Well, it's relative. Your 4000 AP is roughly twice as much as I have in my T4-ish gear. So for a new or normal 70, they'll get ~400 or so per proc. That's a pretty useful number for a 70, a number that's actually useful while grinding or soloing.

Milou · 07/23/08, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by GSH

Well, it's relative. Your 4000 AP is roughly twice as much as I have in my T4-ish gear. So for a new or normal 70, they'll get ~400 or so per proc. That's a pretty useful number for a 70, a number that's actually useful while grinding or soloing.

Well I have over 4000AP in combat with my current gear, this is a pretty significant amount of healing. I Blizzard believes this is appropriate I will obviously not complain about it (nor will our healers) but it seems rather over powered.

Kigale · 07/23/08, 6:02 PM

Originally Posted by kidvid

How does this look?

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Paladin -> Talent Calculator

Thoughts?

I'm thinking Sacred Cleansing might end up being very very powerful, especially with DKs running around diseasing everyone.

Prinsesa · 07/23/08, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Turn Evil - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fear - Spell - World of Warcraft

Listed as "Apply Aura: Mod Fear"

Fairly safe to assume Turn Evil is a fear effect.

I think the disconnect at this point is whether Lichborne's fear immunity is a byproduct of the DK turning into Undead, since Undead are immune to Fear/Psychic Scream/Howl of Terror/etc., or if it's a specific immunity to Fear preventing effects that could normally Fear even Undead; i.e. Turn Evil.

Question for the Warlocks: can you Death Coil Undead mobs?

Thordarsen · 07/23/08, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

I think the disconnect at this point is whether Lichborne's fear immunity is a byproduct of the DK turning into Undead, since Undead are immune to Fear/Psychic Scream/Howl of Terror/etc., or if it's a specific immunity to Fear preventing effects that could normally Fear even Undead; i.e. Turn Evil.

Question for the Warlocks: can you Death Coil Undead mobs?

Yes
Does the horror effect work? not that I recall