WotLK talent trees/abilities discussion - Page 5

Prinsesa · 07/18/08, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cathela

No telling if this is real, but someone has a full tree mock-up posted.

EDIT: The impression I'm getting from the Blizz forums is that Horde is getting "Seal of Corruption" and the Alliance is getting "Seal of the Martyr" which will function identically to Vengeance/Blood.

While I'm extremely pleased with the Prot talents (Judgement of Thunderclap, STA to Spell Power conversion), the mention of a Shield of Righteousness ability is suspect. Any word on this?

flyingtoastr · 07/18/08, 4:52 AM

I lied. You're gonna love this:

Shield of Righteousness [level 75]
6 sec cooldown
Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.

Armor piercing Shield Slam. Prot is gonna have some very sexy single target TPS.

Tuesasinus · 07/18/08, 4:53 AM

Originally Posted by Snow

Is the only one I've heard about so far, and it's a bit... hmm....

Holy and Ret Paladins can pick this up in their builds. It appears to be low enough in the tree.

Snow · 07/18/08, 4:54 AM

The main thing I don't get: why is the 51 pointer based on weapon damage? Unless there's a very large threat modifier, since all of our other abilities on based on SP, won't we be using a caster weapon? Even if the modifier makes it worth it, do we really want to have 1 weapon for 1-3 targets and another for 4+?

Prinsesa · 07/18/08, 4:57 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

I lied. You're gonna love this:

Shield of Righteousness [level 75]
6 sec cooldown
Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.

Armor piercing Shield Slam. Prot is gonna have some very sexy single target TPS.

Hot diggety damn! I'm sold on Paladins - talk about saving the best for last.

Xetron · 07/18/08, 4:57 AM

For me the real new "killer talent" is Divine Guardian. I mean a raidwide 30% dmg reduction over 12 seconds is crazy to say the least (also in arenas).

I don't really understand the Sheath of Light description though "[...]and your critical healing spells also heal the target for 20% of the amount healed" is that a typo of some sort ?

flyingtoastr · 07/18/08, 5:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tuesasinus

Holy and Ret Paladins can pick this up in their builds. It appears to be low enough in the tree.

I could see somthing like this becoming the new raiding holy norm spec. There are a few ways you could twist the talents around though. PvE ret is going to be a strict 0/8/63 though, the new talents are just far too good to pass up.

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Hot diggety damn! I'm sold on Paladins - talk about saving the best for last.

I'm incredibly pleased with Blizzard. There are still some deficiencies they haven't adressed (*coughmanaregencough*) but all in all these talents are great.

Aeverius · 07/18/08, 5:05 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

I lied. You're gonna love this:

Shield of Righteousness [level 75]
6 sec cooldown
Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.

Armor piercing Shield Slam. Prot is gonna have some very sexy single target TPS.

Man, that's just too much. I'm not even sure I believe that one just yet.

I think it's kinda crazy that with all this stuff, we still don't get anything confirmed as a spell interrupt. Hopefully one of these new talents will turn out to offer one.

Also- holy fucking tree bloat, Batman! Please, roll Imp HS into the base talent, and condense a few more of the 5-point talents, damn. I can barely get into the Ret tree for deflection as it stands.

Sapp · 07/18/08, 5:06 AM

Originally Posted by Aeverius

Also- holy fucking tree bloat, Batman! Please, roll Imp HS into the base talent, and condense a few more of the 5-point talents, damn. I can barely get into the Ret tree for deflection as it stands.

I think that's intended. Once you have all the critical talents for pve ret, you have a grand total of two points to spare.

Highborne · 07/18/08, 5:07 AM

I think it is about time to cut down some talents and move a few.

Most other classes got their tier 1 talents cut down to 2-3 talent points and moved around.

Benediction needs to be 3, Imp BoM needs to be 3, toss E4E or Imp Ret aura there for 2 points.

Divine Str should be 3 and move something to tier 1 for 2 points (Stoic?)

Imp Seals in Holy could be cut down to 2, move the improved healing to tier 1 for 3 points.

Then also cut down on some of other bloated abilities.

Reckoning (seriously).
Fanaticism
Illumination
etc

We need some love in this department.

Also, 51 ret looks neat...but I haven't seen anything explaining why we are having to rely on +dmg when we are focused on +str/crit only gear now.
They are moving backwards with some things, moreover, anyone figured out of Alliance get Blood yet (I assume yes since there is a talent for Vengeance).

burghy · 07/18/08, 5:10 AM

Am I missing something or there's nothing that would alleviate ret mana issues. Was hoping for some stat conversion or some regen tool, considering there won't be any int on gear.

flyingtoastr · 07/18/08, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by Highborne

Also, 51 ret looks neat...but I haven't seen anything explaining why we are having to rely on +dmg when we are focused on +str/crit only gear now.

Sheath of Light
3 point
5th tier Retribution
Increases your spell power by 10/20/30% of your total attack power and your critical healing spells also heal the target for 20/40/60% of the heal over x seconds.

That alone has some incredible synergy with Divine Storm, and with the SP Judgements, Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath and even Hammer of Wrath are going to be staples of our DPS rotations. Hell even a "weak" talent like Art of War (15% chance to double Judgement damage after a CS) becomes a monstrous DPS increase.

Cathela · 07/18/08, 5:12 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

I lied. You're gonna love this:

Shield of Righteousness [level 75]
6 sec cooldown
Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.

Armor piercing Shield Slam. Prot is gonna have some very sexy single target TPS.

Hells yeah!

Is that really zero mana cost? Between that and the hammer, it looks like we'll have a shitload of mana-free threat.

Originally Posted by Snow

The main thing I don't get: why is the 51 pointer based on weapon damage? Unless there's a very large threat modifier, since all of our other abilities on based on SP, won't we be using a caster weapon? Even if the modifier makes it worth it, do we really want to have 1 weapon for 1-3 targets and another for 4+?

Single-target looks like it's going to be weapon damage and block value all the way. I think the intent is that the spelldamage from Touched by the Light will be enough to power your other abilities (Cons, HS, SoR/JoR, etc) but the overall balance is supposed to favor a "real" weapon.

Originally Posted by Xetron

I don't really understand the Sheath of Light description though "[...]and your critical healing spells also heal the target for 20% of the amount healed" is that a typo of some sort ?

My best guess is that it's supposed to end with "over 12 seconds" or something like that -- a built-in HoT from crit heals.

EDIT: Tclap. Damn, they're giving us Tclap built into judgements. Too damn sweet.

Highborne · 07/18/08, 5:15 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Sheath of Light
3 point
5th tier Retribution
Increases your spell power by 10/20/30% of your total attack power and your critical healing spells also heal the target for 20/40/60% of the heal over x seconds.

That alone has some incredible synergy with Divine Storm, and with the SP Judgements, Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Wrath and even Hammer of Wrath are going to be staples of our DPS rotations.

I know, people seem to enjoy +SP.

The only benefit I see to it is really giving judgements a boost.
Hammer of Wrath still has a cast time I do believe.

One thing I'd like to know, 3% crit on Judgements, stacking? 12% crit total with 4 paladins?

Moreover, I think something that needs to be addressed is changing Sanctity Aura 2% damage and the 3% haste bonus to affect all our auras; at least that way we can change and use something different if need be (sucks for prot paladins loss of 10% holy damage, but gaining Ret + Devo might even it out a bit).

Antmanton · 07/18/08, 5:16 AM

Holy Christ on a pogo stick. Is Sheath of Light honestly for-real? Am I the only one who glanced over the new trees and instantly thought hardcore shock jock (43/0/28-ish or so) ruthlessly exploiting all the cross-tree crit synergy for Holy Shock to generate instant Holy Lights (which will also likely crit, get 60% refunded, and then proc a 60% HoT along the lines of Ignite). Not to mention the extra 200-300 spell damage from AP conversion and three points in Vengeance to spice things up on the offensive side.

You might well be correct, Toaster, it looks at first blush as if Blizzard wants all paladins out of the back and into the front lines as a true DPS/Healer or Healer/Tank hybrid.