With the changes to the way judged light/wisdom work (4-second cooldown per proc), wouldn't the whole AOE prot levelling thing with reckoning be killed? Or do the bigger SoL/SoW procs make up for that? I'm guessing the procs from SoL/SoW are not on any internal cooldown?

Regarding that beta tester post, removing BoL and BoS is a good thing, didn't really fancy the idea of paladins getting 'pity' spots in raids just so you have 3 blessings anyways.

I do agree with Toaster about the fact that a bit more complicated mechanics should be fun and was required. But I'm afraid that compared with other classes got, the gap between them and paladins (healing wise) will grow even bigger.

As I see it now:
- priests' new talents greatly improve tank healing (Serendipity, Guardian Spirit), raid healing (Divine Providence) or both (Test of Faith, Improved Holy Concentration); their already great versatility now reaches new heights;
- druids' raid healing and utility was buffed big time by Gift of the Earthmother, Flourish, Replenish and Improved Tree of Life and now they can actually be decent tank healers/offhealers since Nourish (which they got baseline) is a great spell to complete HoTs;
- shamans' chain healing seem unchanged and most of talents they got now makes them more versatile, including decent single target healing between chainheals; their raid healing capabilities and group buffs will probably still be great;
- paladins got 10% haste and a improved Holy Shock (whose use I still see as very situational). Infusion of Light doesn't impress me cause you have no means to control it besides Divine Favor and casting Holy Shock HOPING it will crit so you can get an instant Holy Light AFTER GCD seem pretty underwhelming.

All in all, I assume that would still keep us as OK tank healers, but I sincerely can't see any good reason to bring a Holy Paladin to raid. Whatever he can do a priest can do same/better with A LOT more versatility.

Still waiting for a new and improved Beacon of Light, but I am skeptical about it changing things much.

Why? Spell that heals more than FoL, is more effective than FoL and instant. Don't compare lvl 70 shock and FoL, look at lvl 80 numbers. I am sure that using HS each 6sec (be it to heal the tank or damage the boss) will be holydin usual tactics.

Ok, true. We'll most likely replace Flash of Light with Holy Shock whenever off cooldown, which, on crit will allow us to cast an instant Holy Light after 1.2 seconds or so. But with a haste/Light's Grace modified Holy Light cast time of let's say 1.6 seconds, I'm afraid Infusion of Light is not a big improvement: you can't rely on crit to proc when you need it and on damage heavy moments you're way better off with chain casting Holy Light.

A 48/0/23 paly wil be the ultimate tank healer, Sheat of Light will be so insane good here, so I dont think we'll see less holy pallies in raids then today. As AoE healers, don't think so, doubt anyone can beat CoH there.

Yes, speccing Sheath of Light seem to be the best solution right now, but feels odd. Not to mention that in this case judging every 30 seconds for only 6% haste becomes less worth doing it. And on top of it you lose the 51 points talent, whichever this may be in the end. I am pretty sure Blizzard didn't intend this to happen and will be changed somehow. Maybe pushing Sheath of Light 1 tier down? Pretty sure this would cause "overpowered" shouting from all the other classes. Would be nice anyways, but won't happen. Probably Sheath of Light will be moved 1 tier up or nerfed somehow.

I don't know if it was already discussed but what is with the treat of beacon of Light.
Goes all the heal aggro to the paladin or to the party/raidmember with the beacon, i.e. could we help the tank with it?

Well, if they want us to heal reactively (and it seems they do), they will balance the encounter around reactive healing. Sheath is only good if you could feed it with crits and keep rolling. If we are forced to cast 1 HL per 10sec or so, sheath will be quite useless, won't it? So far the sheath imbaness is based on the assumption that we will chaincast in WotLK. That will hardly be the case, at least in the first tier instances. It will still be a nice talent, of course, but it may not be worth taking over the improved (I hope) 51pointer.

If the general healing strategy in WotLK is reactive I think we need some adjusting to direct versus HoT healing (mostly pala vs. druid) or the latter might become too strong.

My point is that the less there are direct heals casted (spammed) to the target the more HoTs are going to do effective healing. Currently HoTs are balanced to the assumption that their heal/overheal-ratio is not that good.


(offtopic but good example: healing our 3 tanks in SWP pre-Kalecgos trash is pretty frustrating when we have our 2 resto druids in the raid - their combined hots are so powerfull that I hardly do any effective healing at all. 2x 3-stack Lifeblooms and maybe even 2x Rejuvs doesn't leave much damage to be healed)

I think 43/0/28 gives more reason to judge than 48/0/23. You're no mana battery that ret would be, but it's better than 6% haste.

EDIT:

Infusion of light gives a 15 second buff, holy shock cooldown is 6 seconds, and with sanctified light, conviction, and holy power you'll have 16% crit just from talents; probably like 40% crit after int and starting raid gear. As long as you're not chaincasting holy light it's reasonable to assume you'll have the buff on demand. Infusion shouldn't be compared to nature's swiftness, I think swiftmend is the better comparison.

Should the final implementation of JotW work out so that the judging paladin is always one of the recipients(as we can only hope), then I would imagine the mana regen would outweigh 6% haste by a good margin.

Infusion of Light makes only next Holy Light instant.

You are right, didnt look that much into the ret tree to be honest (not a pally myself), but 43/0/28 is looking even better.

I think the specs which are considered pvp powerhause should wait on the substitutes' bench.

In theory, if you're under pressure, and you bang off a HS every time it's up (maybe someone will think up a rotation), you'll then be able to immediate follow it up with an instant HL, which can only be an advantage. On the other hand, you get your HS crit, but the tank is relatively stable. Downshift to FoLs comfortable that the instant you need to start healing faster, you can drop an instant HL and throttle back up.

Personally, it seems quite elegant - plus calls for more judgement calls by the healer.

Not at all. You cannot judge often enough to make those extra 5 points a worthy investment since Judgements are on GCD.

I don't think it's all that weak in concept. If they don't go in a totally different direction with sheath and beacon I think it's fine. Remember that even if they don't implement the changing of specs thing on demand, respeccing is part of endgame now. At some points beacon will be strong and that's what you'll spec, otherwise I really don't have a problem with a "weird looking" spec like 43/0/28. Until they make sheath specific itemization (like this) I don't think sheath would be the absolute healing spec to the point that everything else is much weaker. You do give up stuff for sheath. Guardian's favor is a big loss for me personally. There's nifty stuff in holy that I'll miss. I'm just looking at prot from the point of a healer and I cringe at the thought of speccing that way. First tier is a total loss of 5 points. After you get kings you waste another 4 if you go for imp devo and I honestly think the stuff leftover in holy is better looking even if they're not raid talents. My other spec would be 60/11/0. And for speccing something like beacon + conviction? I don't know sure it looks nice on paper, but you just don't get anything cool. The most exciting thing about that spec is PoJ.

For judgments of the pure - I don't see it as an impact talent at all. It's a long way away from divine favor and infusion of light for sure. It might be just strong enough for you to feel a difference, but I don't think it would actually make one in the end. If it would be a drastic cast reduction for the next spell cast only and take judgment off gcd, yeah it'd be an impact talent.

It's highly unlikely that, no matter the raid content in WotLK , Holy Paladins are supposed to act as mana batteries, wasting time to judge at every cooldown and trading haste for that. Judgements of the Wise is a feature clearly intended for Retribution and I repeat, in my opinion, only the fact that Holy tree is weak makes the discussion we're having now possible.

I don't think you'll judge on cooldown in raids regardless. Mana battery is not your job, but it's a perk. Think about now, when you have to run there's really not much you can do except run and holy shock once out of sheer boredom. In WotLK you'll have a ton of stuff you can do - holy shock since it's actually good. Maybe holy light if you're lucky or divine favor + holy shock + holy light if you're desperate, lay on hands if you're really desperate and judge. It's pretty nice.

Judgements of the Pure and Enlightened Judgements make up 7 out of 10 points we are supposed to invest in Holy tree for PVE (other 2 in Infusion of Light and 1 in Beacon of Light). Admitting those 7 points out of 10 (or even 5 if you really think it's viable to put points in Judgements of the Wise, which I don't) would make little or no difference and in the same time saying Holy tree is not weak is somewhat strange...

Beacon is weak. They said it's weak and they're working on it. What I'm talking about is stigma people have for not speccing at least 51 points into a tree of what they do.

With the addition of 3 viable instants (LoH, Holy Shock, and HL with the 15 second buff) and a potential HoT, taking the time to Judge isn't so bad since you can react to spikes.

Judging every 8 seconds would be a little tough to manage though.