The Holy Paladin Guide for WotLK - Page 103

Rehwyn · 03/02/09, 1:03 AM

Originally Posted by Saladin

Actually, shouldn't the fact that MP5 is the most expensive stat on an item's budget diminish its value relative to other cheaper stats? That is to say, since 20 MP5 eats up the budget for 40 crit, we're taking a sizeable "opportunity cost" for the wasted MP5.

It would seem that MP5 should be valued equal to crit/spellpower so that the naturally pricier item budget prioritizes itself beneath crit and the other stats.

I think you misunderstood me or how Rawr represents Relative Stat Value. MP5 is relatively worse than the other stats in terms of StatMod cost on an item, but those ratings aren't based off StatMod. They're an indication of how much relative gain I'd get from 1 additional point of each stat. However, 1 point of each stat has different StatMod costs on an item.

If I wanted to numerically compare the stats based on their StatMod cost, I'd just divide the values Rawr is giving to me by their StatMod cost, like this:

MP5: 2.63/2.5 = 1.052
INT: 2.35/1 = 2.35
CRIT: 1.65/1 = 1.65
SPELLPOWER: 1.63/0.86 = 1.89
HASTE: 1.28/1 = 1.28

When you do this, you can see that MP5 is giving me the least gain per StatMod cost, as expected.

However, all this really helps me do is rank the stats based on their StatMod value, not compare one item to another. This is because when you look at the tooltip of an item, you don't see how much item value is used on a stat; you see how many points of that stat are there. It's these stats that loot ranking addons or websites use to calculate their 'score'.

Amadseino · 03/02/09, 5:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mogurii

Right now I'm using the JC Owl with 2xIntellect Dragon Eyes and the 42 Int trinket from Kara (lol). I'm a big intellect whore, and I have nearly 23k mana unbuffed. I don't have mana or healing issues ever in any content, but my question is this:

Is the Egg of Mortal Essence better than the 42 Int kara trinket at this level?

Thanks in advance

I'd say that if you're going into an endurace fight (e.g. Sapphiron), you'd prefer that +700 mana you get from kara trinket. But if you rather need burst, you'd stay with egg of mortal essence. So it's a good idea to keep some items for burst and endurance fights as well (that's why I have two healing sets).

Eldadelin · 03/02/09, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Amadseino

I'd say that if you're going into an endurace fight (e.g. Sapphiron), you'd prefer that +700 mana you get from kara trinket. But if you rather need burst, you'd stay with egg of mortal essence. So it's a good idea to keep some items for burst and endurance fights as well (that's why I have two healing sets).

What could you possibly have two healing sets for (save PvP)

Unless you mean you have a different trinket set up, I can't imagine changing out some of my gear for something else. Do you mean MP5/Crit/Haste set? And why?

The only difference I have atm is changing into alch stone for S3D.

Mopps · 03/02/09, 12:09 PM

I routinely swap out pieces, once for max crit/ raw power (shorter fights) and another for longevity (4 piece T7 bonus, libram etc.).

galzohar · 03/02/09, 7:46 PM

While currently I don't have much alternative gear, I am trying to keep items I would equip if I wanted to maximize either burst over efficiency or the other way around, as most of the time I gear around maximizing both added together, which may or may not be the best thing to do in future content, and can even be good on one fight and bad on another.

As for all the mp5 hate, remember a lot of items are simply higher item level and thus are still good regardless (malygos boots and shoulders for example). Also in current encounters it seems like if I have low healing it's more because I had to use too many FoLs rather than because I was having too low burst HPS, making it probably better to gear more towards efficiency than burst. For example doing naxx-20man after the DP nerf I found myself having to resort to FoL (or HL spamming with DP up) a few times, but never really felt that my heal size/speed was lacking.

Bottom line is make sure you gear for what you need based on the tota efficiency and burst bonuses granted by the item, rather than just picking items that have stats you think you like. Any stat can be broken down to "efficiency benefit" and "burst benefit" - call these your new stats and choose between them based on what you're actually fighting, ignoring what actually gave them.

Saladin · 03/02/09, 9:50 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

While currently I don't have much alternative gear, I am trying to keep items I would equip if I wanted to maximize either burst over efficiency or the other way around, as most of the time I gear around maximizing both added together, which may or may not be the best thing to do in future content, and can even be good on one fight and bad on another.

As for all the mp5 hate, remember a lot of items are simply higher item level and thus are still good regardless (malygos boots and shoulders for example). Also in current encounters it seems like if I have low healing it's more because I had to use too many FoLs rather than because I was having too low burst HPS, making it probably better to gear more towards efficiency than burst. For example doing naxx-20man after the DP nerf I found myself having to resort to FoL (or HL spamming with DP up) a few times, but never really felt that my heal size/speed was lacking.

Bottom line is make sure you gear for what you need based on the tota efficiency and burst bonuses granted by the item, rather than just picking items that have stats you think you like. Any stat can be broken down to "efficiency benefit" and "burst benefit" - call these your new stats and choose between them based on what you're actually fighting, ignoring what actually gave them.

Galzohar's right on the mark here. An excellent example is our T7 gear. Currently, only the shoulders and gloves are "best in slot" according to the Haste/Crit-centric school of healing--the frosty blue off pieces are better in ever other slot that T7 covers. However, the 4-piece bonus of T7 does wonders for Holy Light efficiency.

I've been lucky enough to collect both full T7 and full Frosty Blue Offset--I've divided them into two separate suits. The T7 for endurance, Frosty Blue for raw healing power.

For example, on Patchwerk, I use the Frosty Blue Offset. This is because Patchwerk is a short yet healing intensive fight when you're running light on healers as most guilds like to do. Thus, I can sacrifice "infinite mana" for more powerful healing where it's needed.

On the other hand, whenever we're going up against Kel, I swap to T7 since the damage output isn't so much of a challenge as surviving the long fight + mana burns. Thus, conversely to Patchwerk, I can sacrifice more powerful healing for infinite mana.

You'd be very wise to take Galzohar's suggestion of building twin healing sets optimized for efficiency vs. burst, since we still don't know what a lot of the Ulduar fights will entail. Even when we do, your role could change drastically based on your healing assignment (i.e., MT or raid healing on Hodir).

Krillict · 03/02/09, 11:29 PM

Exactly.

I am about finished with both of my sets just collecting the last pieces collecting the pieces for my "power healing" set. Having two different healing sets will always be more effective rather than a general and hybrid-like set.

Rehwyn · 03/03/09, 4:56 AM

I have a "Burst" and an "Endurance" set myself for when I need an extreme of either of these; it's one of the reasons my bank space keeps dwindling. :p

Most of the time though I use a set that's a combo of "Burst" and "Efficiency", trying to use the items with the strongest overall balance of these stats.

Gungne · 03/03/09, 8:22 AM

I have been looking around quite a bit and searched here on the forums, but no luck:

Can anyone point me towards a holy paladin guide written in German? I have a Paladin in my guild who really whats to go holy, but doesn't have a clue, howto. And on top of it, doesn't speak english.

Most of the guides I have found so far are either from before WotLK or discussions where I am unable to verify if anything being said is true (like the offical forums).

Thanks in advance

kaboom · 03/03/09, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by Gungne

I have been looking around quite a bit and searched here on the forums, but no luck:

Can anyone point me towards a holy paladin guide written in German? I have a Paladin in my guild who really whats to go holy, but doesn't have a clue, howto. And on top of it, doesn't speak english.

Most of the guides I have found so far are either from before WotLK or discussions where I am unable to verify if anything being said is true (like the offical forums).

Thanks in advance

My german is´nt what it once was but i reckon you might already have tried this page but ran it thru google´s translator?

German version of http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-holy_paladin_guide_wotlk/

Gungne · 03/03/09, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by kaboom

My german is´nt what it once was but i reckon you might already have tried this page but ran it thru google´s translator?

German version of http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-holy_paladin_guide_wotlk/

Great Idea. Haven't laughed that hard in a long time. The german translation is so garbled....

I didn't know i.e. that Spells have something to do with Spelling ;-)

Honestly though - I have never seen a good translation into german that was done by a machine.

Saladin · 03/03/09, 6:54 PM

Well, MMO-champion just put up a list of the Emblem of Conquest loot from Ulduar 25, and paging through the holy paladin selections...I'm pretty put off.

I hope these are just really poorly itemized items because they're "badge loot," and that the tier gear and Ulduar drops are more intelligently itemized. A problem I see on every piece so far is not just the massive amounts of MP5, which we could learn to forgive and utilize in light of the new Divine Plea. Unfortunately, these pieces are also loaded to the brim with stamina.

Just check out these crazy pants. See what a downgrade they are in every useful stat to [Legguards of the Apostle]?

-1 Intellect
-3 Spellpower
-14 Haste
-58 Crit
+37 Stamina
+29 MP5
+Two Sockets

The best you could hope to do with this piece is make up for the downgrades with gems, in effect coming out with the same pants (or arguably weaker) with an additional 370 health tacked on. Most distasteful.

I really don't know why so much stam is being stacked on healer gear, unless we're looking at severe raid damage in Ulduar fights. And if that's the case, I'm all the more concerned about our limited and newly-nerfed AOE healing capabilities.

• frmorrison · 03/03/09, 7:43 PM

Originally Posted by Saladin

A problem I see on every piece so far is not just the massive amounts of MP5, which we could learn to forgive and utilize in light of the new Divine Plea. Unfortunately, these pieces are also loaded to the brim with stamina.

One push of 3.1 is to make Healers care about mana, so the badge item devs got the idea and put MP5 on all the SP plate. Paladins can still chain HL in 3.1, so maybe changes are coming.

The additional stamina is not eating the item budget, and with all the AoE around you will want more stamina (from higher item level gear).

EvadDeWahr · 03/03/09, 9:21 PM

I agree they appear to have stuffed up the badge gear.
It made sense to have poor itemisation on badge gear when you could buy badge gear the same ilvl as Teir 5 just doing heroics and Kara.
But if these badges are only available killing Ulduar bosses then it does not make sense to make the gear so poorly itemised. You may as well save your badges in the hope that they add gems to badge rewards.

SirSilk · 03/03/09, 11:42 PM

If I was to purchase the 3 new Ulduar pieces and remove the equivalent pieces I currently use (T7.5 Gloves and Legs and Waistguard of Divine Grace) the stat change would be:

+74 Stamina
+75 Mp5
+50 Spell Power
-14 Int
-94 Crit
-42 Haste

This also excludes the loss of any T7 bonuses. The Int loss is the result of the socket bonus in the T7.5 gloves.

The new neck piece appears weaker thant the Life-Bender's Locket, with a stat change of:

+17 Stam
+1 MP5
+5 SP
+6 Crit
-21 Int

It appears the buff to stamina and Mp5 is going to come at a significant cost. Makes me wonder what change are coming to make these costs worth being paid.