The Holy Paladin Guide for WotLK - Page 110

Corronach · 03/10/09, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by ManaTF

Two pages ago, people wrote tips about how to reduce movements during fights in order to be able to spam HL on tanks (as most bosses in ulduar deal approximately 20k on 226ilvl prot warrior)...

So, to my mind the question would rather be what will you choose between Int and haste depending on which fight and why. More feedback about this would be great.

Then...to read people still discussing about mp5 vs crit is definitely boring.

Until we've seen all the fights it's impossible to know for sure, but from my experiences on the PTR Int remains the way to go. I have yet to see a fight short enough that mana doesn't matter, as stacking haste over int would create a situation where we'd need to use Divine Plea more frequently. If something happens to current mana regeneration models, and we're forced to cast Flash of Light more frequently, then haste will most likely be better.

ManaTF · 03/10/09, 3:34 PM

haste over int would create a situation where we'd need to use Divine Plea more frequently

I know that sometimes, if you raid with Replenishment up, you can spam HL for an long time before running oom, and this without DP. But with current iLvl gear, it is impossible to ignore Dp on fights like the ones tested on PTR.

On bosses with high DPS on tank, RL should be aware that our DP dependence will yields on critical moments during fights. I think this will probably be ignored at the beginning due to the weakness of current content, which did not even raised the question of using DP or not (except maybe sarth3D).

I often see people with good gear and what looks like good pve experience ignoring the details of key-abilities like DP.

From this time, to find better coordination between healers, and also between tanks and healers, with whisp macro or simply TS communication would avoid issues with low HPS time periods during fights.

thedudeabides · 03/10/09, 3:44 PM

Are my eyes deceiving me, or did they change Infusion of Light to not allow instant FoL? It seems to only reduce the cast time of HL by 1 sec. I searched this thread but did not find a comment on this, apologies if i missed it.

This would seem to have a significant impact on our ability to heal while moving.

Roknroll · 03/10/09, 4:41 PM

What are all of your thoughts on spec with regards to choosing/balancing between % increased healing, % crit, and run speed increase? There's a number of combinations you could use here, and i don't think people will really know until we are going full force into Ulduar.

My initial thoughts were to ignore the % healing increase and pick up pursuit of justice and 3% more crit. But that decision was based mostly on looking through combat logs to see that 9 out of 10 heals end up being overheals which makes a % healing increase mostly useless. However in fights like sarth 3d (especially 10-man) i see that during the toughest parts of the fight, probably 1/3 of my heals contain overhealing. That's when that extra bit of healing can make a difference.

Right now, the first thing I'm probably going to do is ditch pursuit of justice. To help compensate, I'll put Tuskarr's Vitality on my boots, since the crit from icewalker is minimal especially compared to a talent point that gives a full 1% crit or 1% healing.

That automatically gives 2 points to put into % healing increase. Then it's just deciding whether 3% crit or 3% healing is more beneficial. For me it's going to depend mostly on how mana is, and slightly on how much use I am getting out of Infusion of Light on HL crits. I'll probably start out going 3% crit, and then gauging whether I want to go % healing instead.

Thoughts?

• frmorrison · 03/10/09, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by thedudeabides

Are my eyes deceiving me, or did they change Infusion of Light to not allow instant FoL?

The last patch notes (about five days ago) said IoL would still give instant Flash, however gives 20% crit to HL instead of faster cast.

Apollion · 03/10/09, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Roknroll

What are all of your thoughts on spec with regards to choosing/balancing between % increased healing, % crit, and run speed increase? There's a number of combinations you could use here, and i don't think people will really know until we are going full force into Ulduar.

My initial thoughts were to ignore the % healing increase and pick up pursuit of justice and 3% more crit. But that decision was based mostly on looking through combat logs to see that 9 out of 10 heals end up being overheals which makes a % healing increase mostly useless. However in fights like sarth 3d (especially 10-man) i see that during the toughest parts of the fight, probably 1/3 of my heals contain overhealing. That's when that extra bit of healing can make a difference.

Right now, the first thing I'm probably going to do is ditch pursuit of justice. To help compensate, I'll put Tuskarr's Vitality on my boots, since the crit from icewalker is minimal especially compared to a talent point that gives a full 1% crit or 1% healing.

That automatically gives 2 points to put into % healing increase. Then it's just deciding whether 3% crit or 3% healing is more beneficial. For me it's going to depend mostly on how mana is, and slightly on how much use I am getting out of Infusion of Light on HL crits. I'll probably start out going 3% crit, and then gauging whether I want to go % healing instead.

Thoughts?

Use the search feature, there's a good page or two of debate on what you're talking about here. Pretty much it just comes down to personal preference.

Vethon · 03/10/09, 8:17 PM

And yet more MP5 on some legs this time, and a nice lovely blue socket to boot

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ategreaves.jpg

Oh and a matching chest to go with it :S

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...reastplate.jpg

I'm holding out for the tier items tho...

Palados · 03/10/09, 11:54 PM

On the other hand there are pretty shammy bracers, belt and gloves with SP, crit and haste

.

Lye · 03/11/09, 1:18 AM

Curious your thoughts on Gems.

Of course when the new epic gems come out, there may be more choice, or at least better to choose from. Socket bonus really is not a big deal, especially when the bonus is trivial such as +4 haste on the T7.5 legs.

I've currently been gemming all yellow or prismatic sockets (Blacksmith sockets) with +16 intellect, which has been working fine for me. I am using the [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond] in my helm, so I do need 1 red, 1 blue ontop of my 16 intellect.

My question is, which red or which blue do you use/recommend.

Currently using 2x [Dazzling Forest Emerald] and 1x [Luminous Monarch Topaz]. Any other suggestions?

Eldadelin · 03/11/09, 3:22 AM

You already have the yellow, so that's out. Just use one emerald and One topaz to get a socket bonus somewhere. They aren't great, but you may as well if you're going to use something aside from int. Preferably if one of the bonus's give int.

Malloron · 03/11/09, 4:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lye

Curious your thoughts on Gems.

Of course when the new epic gems come out, there may be more choice, or at least better to choose from. Socket bonus really is not a big deal, especially when the bonus is trivial such as +4 haste on the T7.5 legs.

I've currently been gemming all yellow or prismatic sockets (Blacksmith sockets) with +16 intellect, which has been working fine for me. I am using the [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond] in my helm, so I do need 1 red, 1 blue ontop of my 16 intellect.

My question is, which red or which blue do you use/recommend.

Currently using 2x [Dazzling Forest Emerald] and 1x [Luminous Monarch Topaz]. Any other suggestions?

If you have boatloads of yellow gems, and you need 1 red 1 blue, Id use 1 Purple gem to get them both.

[Item not found!] for instance?

Zaroua · 03/11/09, 6:25 AM

Originally Posted by Tzeni

For me, it was choice... I can keep up OT1 in a 2-OT strat no problem casting HL every 2 seconds. I just keep hitting HL without JotP and it works out just fine for me in terms of mana consumption vs. HPS.

For him, running a 1 OT strat going for a speed record, it's an impossibility. It's simply too great a risk to spend the 1.5-2 seconds judging the boss when the OT and/or DPS can get jibbed easily in that situation.

Also, it's rather impressive to be landing an HL once every 1.6 seconds with no JotP. I assume he probably had JotP up from hitting a rat to begin the fight. Also he had heroism up for 40 seconds on a 1:37 kill. Between Heroism and having JotP up (probably) to start the fight, he was hasted almost the entire time.

Pretty much what you said.

In regards to the Ulduar gear and such: I see no reason to get rid of 4pc T7.5 in favor of SP/Crit/MP5 or SP/Haste/MP5 atrocities. The only reason I can see dropping such a powerful set bonus is if the 2pc or 4pc bonus for T8 can trump 5% less mana spent on the only healing spell I use when HPS matters. I don't think I've used my Flash of Light button outside of doing Iron Council easy mode on the PTR and I see no reason for that to change, especially since sweeping Paladin changes are very unlikely to come out for a good while (the latest GC post on the matter said that they were starting to consider that maybe they should start to think about starting to think about Holy Paladins, maybe... soon).

And if things remain as they are, gearing will be about grabbing Elemental Shaman mail pieces along with Mage cloth (the Spirit-free stuff).

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...wintergale.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...fallenwyrm.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...il_9658_11.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...mbralbrute.jpg

danlock2 · 03/11/09, 3:14 PM

What are thoughts on Holy 3.1 specs? The new tier 1 prot talent looks interesting, but is it worth losing some points in holy, or some crit outta ret for it?

I had thought about something like this

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9658

since infusion of light is getting nerf'd any ways as that only drops 3% crit from my current build. That drops me from 35.56% holy crit to 32.56% holy crit, and with glyphs / talents, that puts my major spells up to 37.56%. Any other ideas?

ManaTF · 03/11/09, 4:46 PM

Any other ideas?

I would certainly take the same template. But about glyphs I would recommend you to have a look on Glyph of Divinity combined with minor Glyph of lay on Hands. The amount of mana gained with this shouldn't be disregarded.

Then, I fully agree with you for the new talent divinity 5/5. It scales well with our favourite and so powerfull HL. Of course it will yields on overheal most of the time, nevertheless as bosses swing damages steeply increase, I'm sure 5% heal will become usefull.

Firecrest · 03/11/09, 5:26 PM

I miss HL Rank 8. It seems to me that a lot of our current problems revolve around the fact that we no longer have a mid-range heal. FoL is too little to be effective (what good is landing a 4k FoL on a 40k tank?) and so that leaves us with the mana-hog of a spell HL. It means that we're tearing through mana and relying heavily on ways to replenish our mana.

The changes I've seen Blizz make lately on live and the direction they seem to be taking on the PTR seems to be that of trying to push us away from HL spam by limiting our regen. It seems like the best way for them to do that would be to give us something else to do. I spam HL because it's the only efective healing spell I have. Sure I have tricks like Beacon, JoL and SS - but the only real straight up healing option I have is HL.

I'd like to see Blizzard give us a mid range spell (something a little stronger than Shock and with no CD and a 1.5 second cast time) or bump up FoL to make it more viable - in conjunction with the mana regen nerfs. Just nerfing our regen without providing an option to replace the one that's being taken away won't end well.