I'm having a hard time understanding all this talk about HL spamage. Yes, we have the mana pool to do it, but it's completely unneccessary. I can't think of one fight in this game that requires HL spamming. Yes, its a great way to pad the meters, and by meters, i mean overhealing meters! All this suggesting that HL spamming will allow us to heal at our maximum is just promoting sloppy and lazy healing.
I wasn't aware that they changed haste to be based off of the shorter cast time of HL when Light's Grace is up. Are you sure about that? It used, and I thought it still did, base the cast time reduction off the 2.5 sec cast, THEN subtracted 0.5 sec. If that's the case, then a maxed out FoL (1 sec cast) would mean a 1.67 sec normal HL, and a 1.17 sec light's grace HL.
Still, the biggest problem I have with haste is that the higher you stack it, the less it takes off the cast time. To max out, you'd need 886 haste rating (27% on top of the base 23% from talents and raid buffs). That is a LOT of haste points you'd need from gear. Sitting at 886, you could lose 200 points of haste (down to 686) and only raise FoL and the GCD to 1.04 seconds. HL would gain 0.07 seconds or 0.06 seconds (depending on how it's calculated with Light's Grace).
I do agree, however, that if you find you aren't having mana issues and your heals are hitting plenty hard enough, haste becomes worth stacking. I think a lot is going to change with the next raid, though. It's well known and confirmed by Blizzard that Naxx was meant to be an easy, entry level raid.
I'm having a hard time understanding all this talk about HL spamage. Yes, we have the mana pool to do it, but it's completely unneccessary. I can't think of one fight in this game that requires HL spamming. Yes, its a great way to pad the meters, and by meters, i mean overhealing meters! All this suggesting that HL spamming will allow us to heal at our maximum is just promoting sloppy and lazy healing.
The people mentioning they are spamming HL are using 5-6 healers for 25 mans or 2 healers for 10 mans.
Even if you had 7 Healers, if you can spam HL on the tank why not do it if your mana pool allows? Overhealing isn't bad, the way to know if you are a sub-par healer is if your assigned target(s) dies.
The people mentioning they are spamming HL are using 5-6 healers for 25 mans or 2 healers for 10 mans.
Even if you had 7 Healers, if you can spam HL on the tank why not do it if your mana pool allows? Overhealing isn't bad, the way to know if you are a sub-par healer is if your assigned target(s) dies.
Yeah, I've found that I'm spamming HL doing Naxx with just myself and a priest healing. With DP, Glyph of BoW, and the libram of awesome I don't know why you wouldn't; I don't see how ending every fight with 90% mana would be any better than ending them with 5 to 50% mana. It's basically always safe for me to use DP every cooldown since I still heal enough with it up that I can reliably keep the tank topped off. I love our mana regen, I love being able to have less than half my cooldowns go to FoL. With two healers on Patchwerk I was able to keep SS up on both the tanks, BoL up on one of the tanks, and go to town with HL on the other, and still not go OOM.
I very much think that in this expansion we've been given changes that lend themselves to a very different playstyle than the classic FoL spambot archetype, and because of that we will have to adapt ourselves to new ways of thinking. I don't think that's a bad thing; I'm excited to see the dawn of our class as one that's as complex and interesting to play and model as priests and druids had always been.
I wasn't aware that they changed haste to be based off of the shorter cast time of HL when Light's Grace is up. Are you sure about that? It used, and I thought it still did, base the cast time reduction off the 2.5 sec cast, THEN subtracted 0.5 sec. If that's the case, then a maxed out FoL (1 sec cast) would mean a 1.67 sec normal HL, and a 1.17 sec light's grace HL.
Still, the biggest problem I have with haste is that the higher you stack it, the less it takes off the cast time. To max out, you'd need 886 haste rating (27% on top of the base 23% from talents and raid buffs). That is a LOT of haste points you'd need from gear. Sitting at 886, you could lose 200 points of haste (down to 686) and only raise FoL and the GCD to 1.04 seconds. HL would gain 0.07 seconds or 0.06 seconds (depending on how it's calculated with Light's Grace).
I do agree, however, that if you find you aren't having mana issues and your heals are hitting plenty hard enough, haste becomes worth stacking. I think a lot is going to change with the next raid, though. It's well known and confirmed by Blizzard that Naxx was meant to be an easy, entry level raid.
This has been the case since 2.3, spell haste is applied after all flat cast time reduction effects. 1% haste means in the given time period you will cast 1% more spells, regardless of your starting amount of haste.
Yes, spamming HL might be unnecessary for current raids, but that is because they are designed as entry level raids. So if you are good, and have good gear to support HL spamming, then they are supposed to be easy.
I like being able to Holy Light a lot, there are very few circumstances where spamming HL on a target and they die. Who cares if it overheals, it greatly reduces that chance of that target dying. Show me a situation where spamming HL isn't enough, and try to argue that 200 more spell power would have saved the day.
I'm having a hard time understanding all this talk about HL spamage. Yes, we have the mana pool to do it, but it's completely unneccessary. I can't think of one fight in this game that requires HL spamming. Yes, its a great way to pad the meters, and by meters, i mean overhealing meters! All this suggesting that HL spamming will allow us to heal at our maximum is just promoting sloppy and lazy healing.
Sarth+3 is the big one (especially 10-man). To some lesser extent, low-man healing Malygos-10.
Thanks for the great thread. My original intent was to go prot with my pally, but my guild is heavy on tanks and needs healers so I decided to switch. I'm trying to gear up ASAP, but I need some basic advice on gemming. From what I've read here, int is the primary stat to go for and mp5 is basically junk. So, should I gem straight intellect with disregard for socket bonuses (especially mp5)? Or should I use a mix of int/xx for bonuses other than mp5? Just some basic gemming guidelines would be most helpful. Thanks.
I've generally been gemming pure int in my yellow slots pure spell power in red slots and the Dazzling Forest Emerald (8 int 3 mp5) in my blue slots. If you're really dying for int you can put the Luminous Noble Topaz (9 spell power 8 int) in red slots but technically speaking you lose 1 spell power by doing so because you can gain 19 spell power and 16 int in 2 slots with their pure gems compared to 18 spell power 16 int if you used the mixed gem. If you are a jewelcrafter I'd focus on putting the 27 int gems into your blue slots because they are traditionally your weakest slot so the marginal gain is the highest.
I was thinking, given people are already able to sustain a chain-cast HL cycle, the [Item not found!] could actually be worthwile taking and keeping up on the tank.
I'm not personally quite up to the level of gear required to sustain HL spam, but assuming you get there and don't mind overhealing, this definately ends up looking better than we expected. From what I recall however, the HoT ticks slowly (once every 3s) which lends itself poorly to what it might provide on a tank, namely an additional buffer (with SS) in between landing HLs at 1.8-2s a cast. On the flip side, if you're no longer using FoL as your go to GCD filler on the tank anymore, glyphing it to throw them around the melee might be worthwhile. I expect they'll be snipped, but so are renews/LBs/regrowth ticks, so it simply adds an extra dimension to your healing.
Assuming moderate raid damage, would a beaconed tank receive all the ticks from a glyphed FoL paladin spamming on various raid members?
Theoretically, if you consider 1 FoL /s on a different member each time, all the ticks would be coming in asynchronously, at 1 tick/s for ~1000 each (if you've got a 3k FoL -> (3000 * 1.4)/4 = 4200/4 = 1050). If you FoL 3 targets at mid health and the HoT ticks, you're looking at a pretty decent pillow on your tank for the next 9s or so. It's a rough idea, but it could work in some settings.
It does sound very good on paper as the accumulated ticks from the raid would provide a good "pillow" as Arthaal stated. It's going to be kind of situational depending on the fight and the types of healers you have in the raid and how fast they would be able to top off the raid how good that hot is going to be. Nonetheless, something I vouch to consider trying out as it's potential can be what we need.
Agreed, it is very situational in anything but 5mans. Raid damage seldom stays unhealed in 10s and is even more rapidly targeted in 25s. However assuming the GCDs were not going to be used for anything else, I'd consider it as applying extra padding on top of SS to help with any future burst... it's cheap enough, and if it comes down to throwing around SS on the raid or HoTing and potentially helping myself on the tank 10s down the line, I'd rather use the HoT and double dip, so to speak, when that healing is redirected to the tank.
This has been the case since 2.3, spell haste is applied after all flat cast time reduction effects. 1% haste means in the given time period you will cast 1% more spells, regardless of your starting amount of haste.
Yes, spamming HL might be unnecessary for current raids, but that is because they are designed as entry level raids. So if you are good, and have good gear to support HL spamming, then they are supposed to be easy.
I like being able to Holy Light a lot, there are very few circumstances where spamming HL on a target and they die. Who cares if it overheals, it greatly reduces that chance of that target dying. Show me a situation where spamming HL isn't enough, and try to argue that 200 more spell power would have saved the day.
This is exactly how I feel.
I'm very open-minded about how others play their game but I just don't get why anyone would cast FoL when HL spamming is significantly more HPS and can be sustained anyway. I like the Sacred Shield/FoL synergy but the HPS is still subpar.
If anything, FoL syncs better against boss swing timers, reducing the chances of an RNG burst. Because of this factor, I'm investigating if additional haste could help me push HL to 1.40s (currently 1.51)
I had tried using FoL pre-wrath with the glyph to see if it procced beacon of light. Does -not- proc beacon, I've found that even the holy light glyph which had in the past been useful with beacon isnt working either. Just a quick FYI since its being discussed.
I'm hoping that we see the emergance of 2 distinct holy paladins. The first one would stack SP to get FoL up to the "middle" heal levels. And the other one stacks Int and forsakes SP to be able to spam HL. SP with HL spam seems a bit redundant at this time.
I love options and hope that we don't fall into a cookie cutter style of speccing and gearing.
In my eyes sacred shield is going to perform the function you are looking to get out of the flash of light glyph. The benefit of the hot is too small to make it worthwhile while gimping your spam power.
Like many have said before, overhealing meters are pointless. Unless your assignments dies or you go oom, the value of your overhealing is moot. Try adding sacred shield to your rotation and you will be happier.
A) I already Sacred Shield, but Sacred Shield isn't a HoT. The mechanic is very different.
B) I don't run out of mana on any Naxx 25 fights, and I basically chain cast my 1.6 second Holy Light. Sure I have tons of over healing, but no one dies and I'm splashing out Glyph heals as well.
What I'm looking at it, is the possibility of adding something I can throw out when I know standing still to heal isn't an option.
I currently use it and I can't say it has made much of a difference overall. Healing is either too easy that it doesn't matter which spell you use or FoL is too small to heal so I have to switch up to HL.
For 10 man Malygos with a second healer (druid in my case), for instance, he rolls HoTs on the MT, I beacon the tank then heal the raid. The raid takes random 7-8K damage. FoL is too small to cover. HL is slightly too large, but since paladins have nothing in between, HL it is! We've done it with assignments swapped before, too. But with this one, I can use beacon a bit better. During vortex, unless I can get FoL under 1s, which I can only manage with a shaman, I can't cast anything but shield and shock to help cover damage.
Phase 2: I stick to HL, too. It's fast enough to cast and move between bubbles. It also has a small AoE and is the fastest way to catch up after a breath.
Satharion with drakes, once at least another drake comes out I pretty much HL most of the time on the OT with beacon on the Satharion tank. FoL during lava wave movement, and shield as it comes off. But I can't say I notice anything different because the HoT is fairly weak. On a crit mine ticks for ~1K every 3 seconds. Druid rolling on the tank easily cover it.
Few heroics fights with lots of AoE, (Halls of Stone's Brann disc encounter and Halls of Lightning's Loken off the top of my head) I've typically have been using shield, beacon on the tank, and heal everyone else.
I must say I'm quite surprised that the FoL glyph HoT effect not being redirected by beacon... it seems like such a natural use for the glyph's effect considering the role of the paladin in raids. Without this mechanic, I really don't see a need for FoL anymore... if we can gear to spam HL, why would we ever cast FoL anymore? For efficiency's sake when there is no longer a need for more efficiency? If it creates a new niche for FoL with higher geared paladins, I think this issue deserves a bug report to be brought to the developer's attention. I do not relish the idea of becoming a one class spell.
So just after taking a quick glance at Rawr, for a medium length fight, [War Mace of Unrequited Love] is the 4th best mace in the game, also mp5 seems to be very good according to Rawr
So just after taking a quick glance at Rawr, for a medium length fight, [War Mace of Unrequited Love] is the 4th best mace in the game, also mp5 seems to be very good according to Rawr
I would stick away from absolutes like that. Even though it is the 4th for you, its the 8th best for me. A lot of the ranking for gear varies on your current gear, and how many Holy Lights you can do. Mp5 can be decent at lower levels, but crit/haste definitely beat it out at higher levels.
If you didn't see the in Rawr.Healadin thread, in the next version it will also model burst healing more. There will be a slider in options where you can set the scale of total fight healing vs burst healing.
I would stick away from absolutes like that. Even though it is the 4th for you, its the 8th best for me. A lot of the ranking for gear varies on your current gear, and how many Holy Lights you can do. Mp5 can be decent at lower levels, but crit/haste definitely beat it out at higher levels.
If you didn't see the in Rawr.Healadin thread, in the next version it will also model burst healing more. There will be a slider in options where you can set the scale of total fight healing vs burst healing.
Oh, i didn't realize that it scaled with current gear
12/05/08, 2:08 PM
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