Too true, we got Sarth +3 tonight and HL is basicly all I use to keep my tank up (3 tanks, Druid MT Sarth, Warrior on Drake adds and Pally for Welps + Fire spawns). At times the tank will take a burst of 10k+ from a breath with a 5-7k melee, not the type of damage you want to attempt to flash spam through. With that being said, I easily sustained my mana pool till 2 drakes were down, then I got instagibbed by 2 fire tsunami's and a new add spawning and meleeing me for 6k But after a simple DP was enough to get me back to ~30% mana and with cancel casting HL's I was able to regen and keep my tank up, and finish the fight with 40%+ mana.

I really dislike FoL spamming unless its 5 mans or there are multiple healers assigned to the tank I'm on, since 90% of the time my HL will end up overheal then ><

With my weightings, [War Mace of Unrequited Love] is clearly the best Ilvl200 weapon, but all caster weapons with higher Ilvl than 200 are better than that. Keep in mind though my rating evaluate 1% increase in burst as equal in value to 1% increase to healing done in rawr, which makes SP almost twice as good as what rawr says, and makes haste about equal to crit. Not sure if that's the best way to evaluate it, though, but it's better than anything else I can currently think of.

There seems to be some misconception about how Wrath of Air, Sanc Retribution, JotP and haste from gear stack. They all stack multiplicatively, not additively as most people think. So if you have all raid buffs you only need 20.6% haste (~700 haste rating) from gear to get haste soft capped (50% total haste). If it stacked additively you would need 27% haste from gear.

Yes, I have been trying it out for a few raids now (10 man) . Depending on how eager I was to make full use of it, the glyph heal accounted anywhere between 5% and 12% of my total healing. On the occasions where I used it on the tank primary it was between 5-6%, just above the HL Glyph. I never felt like I was lacking FoL in it's original form, since HS did more then well in situations I needed a fast topping heal.

This situation illustrates why I find FoL too dangerous to use. While top raiding paladins know how to play their class really well, there is always the factor of rng (or accumulated burst) that can punish any experienced paladin.

Can anyone else confirm this? That's a really important thing to know. ~700 haste rating to soft-cap sounds much easier than ~900.

Also, can anyone else confirm 100% (from testing) what haste's effect on LG HL is? If I'm soft-capped on FoL, and I have LG up, what's does my HL tooltip say?

If WoA, SR, JotP, and Haste from gear stack multiplicatively, *and* apply to the base (2.5s) casting time of HL, then it ought to be easy (trivial really) to bring HL's casting time down to = the GCD. Surely that can't be right?

Particularly, what would then happen when IoL procced on your 1s HL? Haste from gear shouldn't be able to reduce a cast-time spell to "instant"...

The same is true of spellpower, though, the higher you stack it, the less %throughput one SP adds. And with int, the higher you stack it, the less %mana it adds. It just depends how you count it. My point stands, if your throughput is high enough, and your regen is high enough, SP/int/crit are all *doing nothing*. Haste is letting you respond to a RNG event (marginally) faster.

Woa, JotP and SR do indeed stack multiplicatively. So instead of (5% + 15% + 3%), you would have to use (1.05 * 1.15 * 1.03). So you would get 24.3725% haste buffed instead of 23%.

If the so-called softcap was 50%, you would use (1.243725x = 1.50) where x is the haste required. So x = 1.206054%

20.6 * 32.79 = 675.474~ 676 haste rating

You could drop a healer from your raids, or if cannot do that (some people run with 5 for 25s and 2 for 10s) just stack whatever stats you like best.


You could try out each stat to see what you like best. Assuming I was comfortable with my mana pool by having enough mana plus critical strike to maintain it (Not there personally), I would stack spell power because I like Sacred Shield.

What do you guys think about keeping the 2 piece Tier 6 bonus for quite a while at 80? Especially with a HL heavy playstyle & gearing, it is really an amazing bonus. I haven't broken it yet because I haven't found suitable boots to be worth it in my opinion (I'm using boots & Belt). My normal raid group has a boomkin in it, so my holy light is normally around 47-48% crit with the bonus. Has anyone else forsaken some additional stats and SP to keep this? Or should i just go buy the badge belt and put my blue boots on.

We are doing 10 man 2 healers untill Saphiron, becouse its a 3 healer fight. Ill try spell power gems now, dont know if its or haste is better.

All haste effects are applied after LG, as I said previously in this thread, this has been the case since 2.3.

Note, imo only the bracers, belt, and boots are worth keeping (I see you have those, the comment is for others).

How about enter the badge belt + your boots into Rawr and see how it ranks compared to 2x T6? The badge belt is pretty neat with 2x 16 int gems (with the belt buckle).


I never had the Sunwell T6 items, so I replaced my T6 the first time I saw an upgrade to those slots. Getting more stamina and Int was pretty nice for me.

First off thank you for all this valuable info, I am a better healer because of it. I am looking for trinket clarity, we are starting Naxx 25 this week and I have collected all but one of the cards for the [Darkmoon Card: Illusion]. The 98 SP is decent but the +1200 Mana every 6 minutes seems lame now. I have not had any mana issues yet. What do you think are the best trinkets to look at, and is it worth investing 3000g in this card? I am currently using [Mercurial Alchemist Stone] which I would hate to give up and [Essence of the Martyr] which has to be replaced.

Why should I use Holy light if I can maintain the tank with FoL? I dont understand why should i choose a spell with 1200 mana if FoL is enough with 300.

Unless your tank really outgears a particular fight, in later raids he will take more damage than FoL can heal. Also, heavy holy light gearing lets you keep a tank (or 2 With BoL & conditions being right) alive by yourself. This allows your other healers to focus on keeping the raid alive, and lets you bring fewer healers which normally makes fights even easier.

Aha, ok. So I should start gemming to int? And is the FoL glyph worth, or its ruining the spell? And wich glyph is better, wisdom or light?

Yes, gear for Int if you move to a HL playstyle. I feel glyph of Flash is worthless, because I sometimes use Flash to top off people. Wisdom is the better one for HL spam, however if you wish to continue to Flash spam Light would be better.

When I max out in rawr (best possible items in each slot), strategically placed 2-piece T6 actually beats out the heroic gear in total amount healed (only about 2% more though in a 6 min fight). That's using my settings, though and yours might be a bit different. I put on the T6 wrist and either boots or waist (both are the roughly the same). The downside is that average non-crit heals go down a little (about 80 for FoL and 150 for HL). It's all probably a matter of preference, but kind of nice to not spend the DKP and keep your old T6 if you have the wrist/boot/belt.

1200 on a 5 minute cool down does seem abit low for a card with no stats, or should I say no int. If you're gearing the HL route I probably would go with something else. The other Darkmoon card [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] alot of people are saying is one of the better ones around assuming you get the Int version. I've found that with HL gearing I've gone more for mana regen trinkets than +SP ones. i.e. I'm currently running with [Spark of Life] from Heroic Halls of Stone, and [Figurine - Sapphire Owl], from Jewelcrafting, with two +16 int gems in it (and planning to upgrade them to Dragon's Eye int gems when I get tokens for the pattern and gems). I don't claim to be an expert, I'm just giving my experiences

Noting that picking up Jewelcrafting would give me a boost of 107 (33 from the prismatic gems, plus the [Figurine - Sapphire Owl] trinket that everyone is using) Intellect, would it be worth dropping Herbalism and picking that up on another character, then getting Jewelcrafting on my Paladin for the sake of being able to Holy Light more? Or, would I be better off just shoving the [Brilliant Autumn's Glow] gems in whatever sockets I get? I'm just not quite sure how much more that would improve my mana, as I don't even have full level 80 gear yet, and I haven't seen the incredibly healing intensive fights outside of 10-man Patchwerk.

It's still better to have "crafting" professions instead of "gathering" ones as far as bonuses are concerned.
Also keep in mind JWC is a very profitable profession.

Having many too hours of work to waste i created this spreadsheet to help determine which stat values I wanted and when to socket for set bonuses. Simply input your int, mp5, crit rating, haste rating and spellpower on your character sheet and it will give you a readout of hps, time till oom average heal etc and allows for comparisons. After finishing it seems the only spell that really matters is holy light, and int is the best stat to stack currently.

The spreadsheet has full details on spell assumptions and its limitations.

Enjoy!

Deval


Update: The spreadsheet seems to not be working properly as a google doc (or someone edited the formulas), i will repost later tonight.