The Holy Paladin Guide for WotLK - Page 2

Malleus · 11/04/08, 3:37 AM

Originally Posted by Endoscient

Also some good news for Holy Paladins.

<GC's quote on changes to AW, DP and DS>

This would leave us much more free to use Avenging Wrath in any encounter where Bubble might be needed.

By which I'm presuming AW keeps its 3m CD and DS its 5m CD, but each one triggers a 30s CD in the other when used. I'm also presuming they're dumping Forbearance, at least on AW. GC didn't actually say this would be the case, but it stands to reason - there's no sense in putting a 30s linked CD on a spell you couldn't cast for another couple of minutes anyway.

SiliconX · 11/04/08, 7:20 AM

For Glyphs, Minor Glyph of Lay on Hands is practically a no brainer. The +20% from Glyph of LoH gets calculated before the mana return rather than after, so used in conjunction with Major Glyph of Divinity, it results in +20% mana returned to the Paladin when used on another target, and +40% when Lay of Hands is used on the Paladin.

Considering L75 Lay on Hands restores 1950 mana, this results in a return of 4680 mana when used on yourself. This equates to more than a Runic Mana Potion will provide, essentially giving you two potions per fight assuming you don't need to save LoH for a potential huge tank damage spike.

Endoscient · 11/04/08, 9:29 AM

Originally Posted by Corronach

Thanks, I agree the PvE options are fairly slim atm but I hope the second batch of glyphs will add some more options down the road. I also agree the Flash glyph is pretty bad for every scenario I've encountered.

Did these get removed or should they be added to the list?

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom - Item - World of Warcraft
Glyph of Seal of Light - Item - World of Warcraft

I totally forgot about those since you can't get them until 80. I'll add them today, thanks. Minor Glyphs are really straight forward, but I'll also include them.

It is worth noting though on live the Glyph of Lay on Hands only effect how much mana your target gets, not how much mana you get with Divinity. So with both of those Glyphs you only get the base amount of Lay on Hands (900 at 70). Also are you saying that if use LoH on yourself with Divinity, that you get double the mana? I didn't think that was the case, but I'll definitely test it out later.

Intoxify · 11/04/08, 9:37 AM

You missed a libram, though I'm unsure of how well the effect on it would scale-- if it works identically to the "increases spellpower of x", or if it's really as gimp as the tool tip would indicate. If it works how I hope, it may be good for high mobility, low damage fights, or even just in 5 or 10 mans where you'll be wanting to hit HS fairly often.

Venture Co. Libram of Mostly Holy Deeds - Item - World of Warcraft

Endoscient · 11/04/08, 9:41 AM

Originally Posted by Intoxify

You missed a libram, though I'm unsure of how well the effect on it would scale-- if it works identically to the "increases spellpower of x", or if it's really as gimp as the tool tip would indicate. If it works how I hope, it may be good for high mobility, low damage fights, or even just in 5 or 10 mans where you'll be wanting to hit HS fairly often.

Venture Co. Libram of Mostly Holy Deeds - Item - World of Warcraft

How do you hope it works? None of the Librams like that scale, they will heal for the additional amount it says on the tooltip. I saw that Libram, but purposefully didn't include it since it isn't that great. Even if you are hitting Holy Shock really often, you will almost surely be casting more FoLs. Which would make the level 70 FoL Librams better, if you haven't gotten a chance to get a level 80 Libram yet.

Intoxify · 11/04/08, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by Endoscient

How do you hope it works? None of the Librams like that scale, they will heal for the additional amount it says on the tooltip. I saw that Libram, but purposefully didn't include it since it isn't that great. Even if you are hitting Holy Shock really often, you will almost surely be casting more FoLs. Which would make the level 70 FoL Librams better, if you haven't gotten a chance to get a level 80 Libram yet.

If it works like a flat +69 heal effect, then yes, it's as gimp as the tooltip indicates. One would HOPE it worked like the three librams you listed, but if indeed it doesn't, it's not worth even looking at.

Endoscient · 11/04/08, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Intoxify

If it works like a flat +69 heal effect, then yes, it's as gimp as the tooltip indicates. One would HOPE it worked like the three librams you listed, but if indeed it doesn't, it's not worth even looking at.

The Libram works exactly like the other spell power librams, when you cast a Holy Shock it is as if you have that much more spell power. Since HS has a 90.5% coefficient with Healing Light, Holy Shock would be increased by 63.

Corronach · 11/04/08, 11:10 AM

• frmorrison · 11/04/08, 11:25 AM

The Vent Co. Libram isn't as good as a Flash libram due to it being less efficient than Flash, and the 70-80 instances don't have any hard hitters to need that many Holy Shocks.

PoJ should not be in a Holy build because Crit is better than run speed and you should have Tusker's Vit on Boots anyway.

I updated my post with total mana of 80 Holy Pally in starter PvP blues (epic rings/neck should make up partly for the resil/stam gems), it was about 13600 mana.

Mithriel · 11/04/08, 11:28 AM

Thanks for the summary. Its interesting to see how intellect will become a stat we'll end up gemming for, however i would've expected more of crit rating myself which i was considering to fully socket for.

Endoscient · 11/04/08, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

The Vent Co. Libram isn't as good as a Flash libram due to it being less efficient than Flash, and the 70-80 instances don't have any hard hitters to need that many Holy Shocks.

PoJ should not be in a Holy build because Crit is better than run speed and you should have Tusker's Vit on Boots anyway.

I updated my post with total mana of 80 Holy Pally in starter PvP blues (epic rings/neck should make up partly for the resil/stam gems), it was about 13600 mana.

You can get both the Ret crit talents and PoJ in the same Holy build if you don't need to get Kings. For a build with Imp BoW I gave up Aura Mastery and 1pt in Blessed Life for PoJ. Also PoJ is twice as good as the boot enchant.

Thanks Corronach, I am going to add a consumable section as well. Also I plan on adding Hand of Sacrifice and Judgement to the abilities section.

Potion of Nightmares is much better then its old brethren, it only lasts 6 sec and it can't be dispelled. There are many fights where I can easily have 6 sec of doing nothing, like during a short phase change. I am going definitely have a stock of both that and Runics for raids.

Corronach · 11/04/08, 11:42 AM

This appears to be the best gem atm
Brilliant Dragon's Eye - Item - World of Warcraft
Can these be stacked 3 times if your a JC?

For non-JC:
Red Runed Cardinal Ruby - Item - World of Warcraft
Yellow Brilliant King's Amber - Item - World of Warcraft
Blue Lustrous Majestic Zircon - Item - World of Warcraft
Purple Royal Dreadstone - Item - World of Warcraft
Orange Luminous Flawless Ametrine - Item - World of Warcraft
Green Dazzling Eye of Zul - Item - World of Warcraft

Do you plan on adding a tradeskill section?

Endoscient · 11/04/08, 11:48 AM

For trinkets Illustration of the Dragon Soul seems to be the best by far, 260 spell power seems op. Especially if you are able to refresh the buff by recasting a Seal. It drops from 25man Sartharion, but good luck fighting with dps casters for it.

I would go with Soul of the Dead or Je'Tze's Bell for my second trinket.

Yes, I will add a tradeskill section to show the benefits you gain from each.

Fielding · 11/04/08, 1:33 PM

Thank you for the work you've done on this so far.

A few things I thought work mentioning. I've been considering working up a decent spreadsheet for holy paladins, depending on my class load and depending on the direction/updates of Rawr.

Also, I saw the mention of a few pvp builds. I'm not entirely a pve nerd and I'm somewhat seasoned in arena, (Gladiator title s2,s3,s4 and at least once in every bracket), so I don't think I'm 100% off in thinking that more people will be picking up Divine Purpose for some of their 2v2, possibly in 3v3 builds. I haven't done much arena since 3.0, thanks BG Ruin for being laggy, so both the builds I've come up with for 2v2/3v3 and 5v5 are all in theory. My 5v5 builds are very close, if not point for point, to what you posted. Thought for 2v2/3v3, I imagine any pvp build that I will be going 20 in ret for I'll go down the extra 2 for Divine Purpose.

Also, just to clarify, perhaps I think it is more powerful than it actually is, but they are going to leave it so we can HoF ourselves out of stuns and not just others?

I'm really happy to see this thread start off. Thanks =)

P.S. Ignore my armory, shows me as ret, but I was just grinding quests for achievements. I consider holy my main spec, even after tanking as much as I did in SW and my holy gear/experience is full sunwell before 3.0 nerfwell.

pope master · 11/04/08, 1:53 PM

Does anyone have any experience using BoL + FoL glyph + a ton of haste in a raid healing type of setting? You should be able to maintain ~7+ HoTs, but I'm wondering how much overheal you're going to have and if its effective at all in a 25 man setting.