I believe if you run the actual numbers the folding into of Blessing of Light resulted in an overall buff to FoL and slight nerf to HL values at 2000SP values, with the extra scaling resulting in better values for both spells around 2500SP (current top end gear). The bonus coefficients are apparently 18% and 23% for FoL and HL compared to a flat 185 and 580 added to base for Blessing of Light. So i suppose at lower SP values (when first entering Naxx for example) FoL scales better than it used to with SP while HL only really catches up at 2500SP or so.

I love the potential change to FoL glyph I am getting it for sure, with SS active we have insane crit numbers. Is there a crit cap? Someone told me 75%.

Not on healing spells, if you have 100% crit, you will always crit.


I believe your friend is thinking of white melee attacks vs a boss, where 24% of the white attacks will glance, which do not crit.

I really think people are misguided in treating haste like it will stop you from "spamming" HL when you need to. If haste is that much of a problem for you, you can always wait a fraction of a second between casts or drop your talents in light's grace if you need to see the cast bar on your screen at all times...

It's not the "spamming non-stop" that is important here, rather than you can do 100% of the healing needed using nothing but holy light.

Quick note that you might want to point out in your "Judgment of Wisdom/Light" section. The attack speed debuff a prot paladin puts on the mob will get removed if you judge the same judgment as them. All holy paladins will probably be picking up Heart of the Crusader which is the same debuff ret paladins. So it's probably best to have holy either judge the same as ret or just judge justice.

Infected Wounds from a druid and Thunder Clap from a warrior will do the same thing as the prot paladin's judgements. Thunderclap costs rage, so it's nice for warriors to not have to do it. So if you have a feral druid tanking it doesn't matter as much. I'd go with Holy Paladins judging wisdom with ret paladins. Ret won't be getting mana back from Spiritual Attunement from their own judgment of light, so having the prot judge light will help them with that.

Another thing I'd like to ask those of you capable to HL spam in 25-mans (I don't have the gear to support it). Everyone talks about HL with 4P T7 and the libram being similar healing per mana as flash of light. At very high levels of gear (both you and the rest of the raid), has anyone looked at effective healing per mana? You'd want to look at a WWS parse for some fights (or a night) where you knew you were HL spamming. Then look at how much of the heal got wasted as an overheal and find out what your HPM was only using effective heals. I guess if you never have mana issues with holy light spam, it doesn't really matter if overhealing goes way up. kinda nice to have that big heal incoming on everyone in case they take a big spike mid-cast.

My take on the int versus sp/crit is that in the end what really matters the most in order to make a decision is the amount of healers in the raid and of course the difficulty of the encounter. From my experience killing sarth10 with 3 drakes up with 2 healers a while ago I think paladins gemming for sp/crit would hit a wall there and not go beyond healing the tanks because of mana. In the end it shouldnt be about just keeping the tank alive but also helping raid healing with your extra mana as much as you possibly can by using HS/HL instead of HS/FoL.

I can guarantee that if I was gemmed for SP/crit instead of mostly int, I would have end up healing the sartharion tank almost exclusively and only throw raid heals with HS/FoL instead of HS/HL in doubt of possibly going out of mana. But of course all this extra mana is not necessary if you have enough healers to cover everything and let you just focus on the tanks and max your output with sp/crit, but why work on an encounter with more healers than you need?

I am still thinking about gemming mostly int for new content progression and re gem sp/crit once I feel my mana regen is way over the top and at the rate people gear up nowadays im sure it wouldnt take that long before I do so, but it would still be worth it to get the extra int for the first few clears of new instances.

Anyone noticed that Glyph of Holy Light doesn't seem to heal us? I was just running nexus and got hit by some AoE damage, so I ran near the tank to get some heals off the splash of my HL and it would heal the other party members but not me. Anyone else encountered this?

I can't say that I have noticed this but I also haven't paid much attention. If this the case it is obviously a bug with either the glyph or the smart targeting system. If we are an eligible party with less than 100% health, there is no reason it shouldn't heal us.

How overpowered would Beacon of Light be if it worked on overhealing?

I'm primarily a Protection Paladin but have a full Holy set and re-spec whenever we're short on healers (or for my guilds 10 man Malygos) and got to thinking about it. The example that came to my mind was I thought it would be a decent idea on Sapphiron to stick BoL on the MT and FoL spam the raid but it didn't go quite as smoothly as I envisioned thanks to Circle of Healing and Wild Growth.

I'm just curious if anyone has given it any deeper thought as to where it would put Paladin's on the healer hierarchy if it did.

So far i´ve not seen the glyph heal me at all, nor in random-heals, 5-mans, pvp or raids. I just thought it was intended.
Now that you mentioned it, i looked at our latest thaddius kills where the glyph tends to hit a lot of ppl.

53 hits, 25 crits. None of them were on me even tho i did take dmg. And i find it kinda strange that none of those hits would have been on me because of overhealing or me being full hp. I´ve checked all our last 2 weeks of reports and i cant find a single holy light glyph that have hit me,

But my sample might be too small to do any conclutions form, but i´ve never seen it hit me,
If it´s a bug or intended i dont know.

Are you sure that you would like to spend time melee-ing the boss for some mana over healing the tank in Patchwerk ?

As of right now I have no mana problem healing in Malygos either (spamming HL most of the time), it might be due to the difference in the numbers of healers that our guild normally bring though.

Oh and I've not noticed how glyph of HL does not heal us now, hopefully it's just a bug.

I'm currently gemmed for SP/int. SP in red and int in yellow. My reasoning after seeing my overheal done with HL only in even low healer situations(1-2 healer 10 Naxx) that I was overhealing for approximately 50%. Certain fights (aoe raid healing sapph with 75 FrR), not quite so! But, for the most part, ~50% was a good number. I figured after that, that you could easily cover that number with SS/FoL stream, then HS into HL once the burst starts or when you'd need to rank up.

I found very very few fights where I had to HL for the entire duration. 3D Sartharion once the second drake was out. Sapph low FrR. Maybe even patchwerk as you'll fall behind with FoL only. The rest was doable with FoL stream with SS for coverage, then HS/HL once the burst came. Since FoL is sustainable forever without cooldowns, it was never a problem. Plus it was almost like standing still and supplying a druid HoT across two tanks. When I had to sustain HL, illumination first, then DP. The only fight that lasts long enough for 2 illuminations is Sartharion, however.

So, that was how I started playing after I went spell power in red. I started using HS into HL a lot more for mobility when running back and forth out of fissures and lava waves. And since beacon doesn't work on overheal, your primary target may have a string of no damage while the secondary does, it was a good way to cover both without breaking rhythm. With tank avoidance(DKs especially) being decent, SS's buff actually stays up for at least one FoL. It makes FoL not bad at all as a heal.

I agree with you. Now that my gear is decent it doesn't matter whichever way. If the next raid instance has nothing but 10 minute fights with nothing but HL needed, then I'll regem int. For now, it's all the same. I go through all but three fights not needing to ever use divine plea because illumination is so good with HL.

I could actually see your point about SS absorb effect staying up longer the better geared your tanks get. Scaling, so to speak, with their avoidance and transforming FoL into a decent, cheap, medium size heal. Add the 40% base crit in Naxx gear, with 50% from the buff and the 5% glyph and we're pretty much looking at guaranteed crits. HL scales better with SP and would remain better HPS and, with all the cost reductions available can become comparable HPM as standard FoL spam, however a 95% crit chance up for and appreciable amount of time would skew that figure. One might argue however that the only scenario in which this works out in the real world is a *hit* *avoidance streak* *hit* scenario... and avoidance is anything but reliable, so relying on the HPS of a crit when you lose 50% chance when you need it most is sort of backwards. That being said, the other reason I gemmed int, is that most of the socket bonuses weren't anything to write home about. If it's something worthwhile, I'll go ahead an drop a red gem to match the socket however.

Bosses usually have an attack speed much slower than 1.0, meaning you will rarely not get a crit FOL after a shileld proc. Of course if the tank is actually taking *real* damage, there's HL.

It would be very OP...To put it in perspective, in an average fight anywhere between 30% and upwards of 70% of our heals can be overheal. That would add up to exactly that much healing pushed through to the tank. If BoL were to be modified in the mentioned way there would be an instant outcry from the other healing classes about us being OP despite the obvious shortcomings of our healing abilities.

True, but encounters seldom only have the bosses swing timer dealing damage to the tank and even a 2500SP SS will only absorb 2800 damage before failing (I believe the coefficent is 90% but I might be misremembering that). Special abilities, AoE ticks, etc. can eat through that before the next hit comes through in a lot of content.

So it seems, from doing Arenas against a Warlock, that Sacred Shield doesn't proc on DoT ticks. This would also explain why it doesn't work for Malygos' vortex.

Are there recommendations as to how a Mac user without access to rawr.exe could make some gear choices? E.g., is there a reasonable lootables.com template? Or has someone computed the rations to use for a quick approximation? In the previous era, I recall someone rated 1 MP5 as 2 +crit and 4.5 +heal. It might take different ratios to reflect a "large mana pool with many Holy Lights" strategy versus a haste build strategy, but it would provide some guidance. Even if you would prefer int, your item options may be between additional haste or additional crit; any suggestions as to how to evaluate those trade-offs would be appreciated.

Hagu

The best I can do is show you the numbers I use with my gear... But you can always use someone else's PC, since you don't need to run rawr for your class too often, as it takes more than a few small upgrades to make a noticeable change to those ratios.

int: 7.57
crit: 2.81
sp: 4.4
mp5: 6.58
haste: 2.39

This is adding up the HPS and efficiency values, meaning I consider 1% burst HPS equal in quality to 1% efficiency. For just efficiency I get:
int: 7.195
crit: 2.81
sp: 2.37
haste: 0

And for HPS:
int: 4.38
crit: 0
sp: 2.03
mp5: 0
haste: 2.39

Again I would highly recommend calculating your own values, but if you can't, they probably won't be extremely different from these (assuming you get same raid buffs and setup etc).

Well that's certainly very lame... Cleanse has become so GCD demanding with every class sporting dispel resist talents that SS was looking to be our answer to DoT/debuff spam... I won't necessarily be able to remove debuffs above the noise, but at least it would cover the incidental damage of DoT rot teams in a very significant way. Intended? Could be a tied to the mob tagging issue with DoTs and accidentally fixed in the PTR if anyone's on there and cares to have a look.

Oh? I'm quite sure it does work on Vortex from all of the times I've used it on the 10 man version.

The current coefficient on SS is only 75%. You're only looking at 2375 damage being absorbed with 2500 SP.