The glyph was a bit too good, but I'm gonna have to agree taking the range on it down to 8 yards (only 3 yards better than the original glyph) may still be too small.
The concern back when the glyph was 5 yards was that on some fights (Brutallus, Sapphiron) or any other fight where the boss has a large hit box, the old glyph wouldn't reach the melee when you were healing the MT. The 20 yard range made that alot better (though admittedly I'm not sure even 20 yards would reach the melee on Brut... stupid pitlord).
Regardless, the glyph needed a nerf, but the nerf would have been better suited for a healing limit than a range nerf
Question: why do Recount and WWS offer vastly differing accounts of healing done on a fight? For example, on Razuvious this week Recount reported 15k hps and 42% of the healing done on the fight as seen here; while WWS reports 9k hps, a much lower healing done % (can't access Naxx12/20/09 right now), while awarding 3rd place on the meters (the shaman at the top according to WWS put out only 4k hps). Healing meter wars aside, I'm just wondering if anyone has a definite answer to this question, in particular whether it is as simple as Recount calculating overheal differently (or not at all), or Recount not distinguishing between JoL, GHL, and Beacon effective healing versus overhealing.
Question: why do Recount and WWS offer vastly differing accounts of healing done on a fight? For example, on Razuvious this week Recount reported 15k hps and 42% of the healing done on the fight as seen here; while WWS reports 9k hps, a much lower healing done % (can't access Naxx12/20/09 right now), while awarding 3rd place on the meters (the shaman at the top according to WWS put out only 4k hps). Healing meter wars aside, I'm just wondering if anyone has a definite answer to this question, in particular whether it is as simple as Recount calculating overheal differently (or not at all), or Recount not distinguishing between JoL, GHL, and Beacon effective healing versus overhealing.
Could be that you don't have recount set to show only effective healing.
my guess would be that one is showing effective healing while the other is showing overall healing. WWS will show effective healing on the general charts. When you go to the actual character's page it shows total healing for each spell cast, and the overhealing %. Try comparing those values. Also, WWS doesn't count your healing done to the DK's that are mind controlled for Razuvious, as stated above. That's a huge amount of healing.
I agree with them nerfing it (look at it doing 50% of a Pally's healing on Saph), but I would rather it been nerfed some other way. With a small range restriction it can still do a huge amount of healing if people position correctly. Something like keeping the range at 20, but having some restriction like the total amount healed can't be greater then 20% of the Holy Light would be better in my eyes.
I agree with the nerf as well, though not on the grounds they are arguing... I think considering their stance on CoH and WG, it's clear they feel AoE raid healing needed to be tuned down. In implementing changes to bring this about they obviously overlooked HL splash as a contributing factor because, pre-patch, it's true power was masked by CoH/WG keeping the raid at 100% on many encounters and through heavy AoE. Once they retuned these spells, the glyph's power was obvious.
The odd thing is, it was obvious to anyone reading it its effect in light of HL spamming paladins that the 10% number, rather than the range was the issue. In terms of raw output, glyphed HL spam matches or slightly exceeds CoH spam pre-patch (I had a breakdown of the numbers in an earlier post). I assumed the "dumb" targetting would take care of mitigating that power once the range made it more reliable healing, but I also hadn't considered how much overhealing of the glyph was due to CoH/WG sniping.
The problem I have with the range is the same as that argued by Endoscient: namely the increased effectiveness of the glyph wasn't only obvious, it was intended in the PTR changes (ostensibly to help paladins with 5 man AoE). The problem lay in the 10% splash amount. If anything, I'd rather they use something like this:
Change the range back to 20 yards, take the +50% of HL it currently assigns equally to 5 random targets at 10% a piece and make it 50%/possible targets per target.
So in 5 mans, it's the version it was on PTR.
But in 25 mans it now heals in most cases for between 2.5 and 5% of the HL on 20-10 people.
I also noticed I'm finally seeing health bars in grid for the mind controlled pets (I'm running the grid guid beta, in case that matters.) Thank god!
It still isn't parsing it totally correctly. It shows it in the breakdown, but it doesn't reflect it in the healing chart. If you look at the healing chart it says you did 512k effective with 38% overheal, for 826k total healing. If you look at your breakdown you did a lot more then that in the whole fight.
The 8 yard range immediately struck me as being quite significant, simply because of Blizzard's propensity towards giving AoE splash damage (generally) a 10 yard range. Iceblocks on Saph hit players within 10 yards for an extra X damage, iceblocks on KT chain to players within 10 yards, Zeliek's holy wrath jumps to players within 10 yards, Maly's breath's secondary effect hits players with 10 yards, etc etc.
The intent seems to be to prevent players who are adequately spread out on these encounters from receiving splash healing from HL to heal their aura / aoe frostbolt / mark of zeliek / arcane barrage / etc damage as well. The glyph still makes HL quite useful for bombing melee after a multiple block on KT, but it helps prevent it just being "free healing" on random raid members who are taking periodic damage, without any sort of opportunity cost at all.
Of course maybe I'm wrong, and 8 yards is just completely arbitrary; but my initial reaction would have been to reduce the range to something more like 12 or 15 yards, if the intent was simply to handle large boss hitboxes without giving it the range to hit ranged DPS as well.
The 8 yard range immediately struck me as being quite significant, simply because of Blizzard's propensity towards giving AoE splash damage (generally) a 10 yard range. Iceblocks on Saph hit players within 10 yards for an extra X damage, iceblocks on KT chain to players within 10 yards, Zeliek's holy wrath jumps to players within 10 yards, Maly's breath's secondary effect hits players with 10 yards, etc etc.
The intent seems to be to prevent players who are adequately spread out on these encounters from receiving splash healing from HL to heal their aura / aoe frostbolt / mark of zeliek / arcane barrage / etc damage as well. The glyph still makes HL quite useful for bombing melee after a multiple block on KT, but it helps prevent it just being "free healing" on random raid members who are taking periodic damage, without any sort of opportunity cost at all.
Of course maybe I'm wrong, and 8 yards is just completely arbitrary; but my initial reaction would have been to reduce the range to something more like 12 or 15 yards, if the intent was simply to handle large boss hitboxes without giving it the range to hit ranged DPS as well.
If 8 yards is enough to reach melee in boss fights than I see no problem, because the glyph was indeed healing a wide range. but if it reaches noone in a raid-boss fight, then the glyph will be as useless as before and will require healing melee particularly to make use of it.
Its obviouslly going to depend on the boss, for heigan and other humanoid size bosses it should be no problem. I imagine on Thaddius if you are on the oposite side of the boss you wont get in range, didnt pay attention last night to it. For dragons I imagine its too small to heal melee, as cleaves would hit them at that range. Ill try to pay attention tonight so we could get a list going of bosses it has use on or special positioning to make better use of it.
I've just respecced from prot to holy since my guild is lacking a holy pally.
I go oom very fast if i spam HL. Even faster while keeping beacon up. Please give some advice as to how to manage my mana effectively while maintaining a decent HPS.
Also, I need help with gemming my gear. Is mp5 of any use to a holy pally? How much Int should i stack? How much int should i have before concentrating on crit?
If 8 yards is enough to reach melee in boss fights than I see no problem, because the glyph was indeed healing a wide range. but if it reaches noone in a raid-boss fight, then the glyph will be as useless as before and will require healing melee particularly to make use of it.
Not that there is any other glyph to replace it
That's my thought: hasn't Blizzard noticed that we are ALL using Glyph of Holy Light, Seal of Wisdom, and Lay on Hands? Wasn't there supposed to be some level of customization involved with the addition of Inscription?
I have to agree with the change, however. The same week I had to endure our two Holy Priests whining about Circle of Healing nonstop for four hours during Naxx, I was absolutely destroying them on the meters since my Holy Light crits were practically like casting 1 HL on my target and 10 Flashes on everyone around him. PLUS the Beacon target. I have to think there are more nerfs coming, possibly to our ridiculously oversized mana pools.
"I'm sorry, honey, but since I stopped playing WoW it appears that there has been some sort of expansion to the game. Unfortunately, it appears to be quite good." -- Me to my Wife
With the 3.0.8 change to Crazy Alchemist Potion it should be added to the trade skills list as a benefit from alchemy in the post at the beginning of this thread.
After 3.0.8 it restores:
3100-3500 HP (310-350 MP from Spiritual Attunement if you were hurt)
4200-4400 MP (Identical amount and range to Runic Mana Potions)
And it also will grant a random non-restorative potion effect (Haste potion, wild magic potion, etc) Which is sometimes useful, sometimes not, but never harmful. And they only take 2 goldclover to make, making they very cheap.
On the whole, it's flat better than a runic mana potion.
Would need to be tested to make sure it works with the alchemist's stone 40% mana buff, but my server is down atm so I can't right now.
The mercurial alchemist's stone could also be added as a benefit from alchemy, though if you're already haste capped then it certainly loses out to other easily acquirable trinkets at level 80. It's great for healers still gearing up, or off-spec holy paladins (It's a 200ilvl trinket available at lvl 75 after all, with a solid distribution of stats).
Mercurial Alchemist's Stone
50 haste rating
59 spell power
40% buff to potions used by you (that's an average of 1720 mana if you use runic mana or crazy alchemist pots).
I've just respecced from prot to holy since my guild is lacking a holy pally.
I go oom very fast if i spam HL. Even faster while keeping beacon up. Please give some advice as to how to manage my mana effectively while maintaining a decent HPS.
Also, I need help with gemming my gear. Is mp5 of any use to a holy pally? How much Int should i stack? How much int should i have before concentrating on crit?
Edit: I forgot to arcanum my helm. Maintenance now...
Your mana pool is definitely not at "HL Spam" power yet. I have 22K unbuffed and I ran OOM last night on Patchwerk right as we killed him at the ~4 minute mark and 15 seconds left on DP (we lost a lot of melee to unfortunate early hateful strikes). But I didn't have replenishment for most of the fight because we only had 1 ret pally to provide the buff, so with replenishment I would have been fine spamming.
For now, you can try spacing out your HLs a little to reduce your HPS in the short run, but keep it higher in the long run (by not running OOM). You can fill in with FL with every 2 HL or something to save yourself some mana. Obviously, make sure to set reminders to use DP at ~80% and then on CD after that. Also macro your DI to your Holy light, keep glyphed Seal of Wisdom on, etc.... all the basic things.
That's my thought: hasn't Blizzard noticed that we are ALL using Glyph of Holy Light, Seal of Wisdom, and Lay on Hands?
Don't you mean Divinity? Unless you mean the minor, but there is nothing else to use. Anyway, while Flash isn't used much, I would think 5% crit to it is better than Divinity's mana gain effect.
Towards the Crazy Potion, yes the 40% trinket effect affects the mana/health gain from the potion, so Alchemists should always use Crazy pots over Runic ones.
3100-3500 HP (310-350 MP from Spiritual Attunement if you were hurt)
Potions or other self-heals do not replenish mana through SA. Only magical heals cast by others (My memory fails me about bandages, but I thought bandages did *not* work) will trigger SA.
8 yards is the range of WW, DS, and other melee aoe abilities (I would also assume cleaves and Hammer of the Righteous type attacks as well, in terms of the "extra" targets they hit). While our direct heals on the tank may still not hit the melee on a cleaving boss, it almost ensures that we hit all the melee should we spare a Beacon'd heal directly on them. As someone mentioned before, Holy Light on the iceblocked melee *should* hit them all enough to keep them up for a wild growth or CoH hit. On trash, though, melee should be fine for heals with the 8 yard range.
'...but making us fight the same boss 30 times with new "exciting" changes like doing it with our pants below our ankles for one kill, tying one hand behind our back for another, and blindfolding ourselves for the next kill...loses its "epic"ness for me.'
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me."
I've just respecced from prot to holy since my guild is lacking a holy pally.
I go oom very fast if i spam HL. Even faster while keeping beacon up. Please give some advice as to how to manage my mana effectively while maintaining a decent HPS.
Also, I need help with gemming my gear. Is mp5 of any use to a holy pally? How much Int should i stack? How much int should i have before concentrating on crit?
Edit: I forgot to arcanum my helm. Maintenance now...
The answers to your questions can be found on the front page.
Basically, stack int above all else. All your crit gems should be int. Your SP/Crit gems should be SP/int if you want the socket bonus. Your crit/mp5 gems should be int/mp5 if you want the socket bonus, etc.
Int is better than mp5 in every single way, assuming a standard raiding environment (ie divine plea usable on CD, some amount of raid buffs, pve spec).
There's no "cap" on int at the moment, but theoretically it would be enough that you could spam 1 second HLs indefinitely and keep your mana pool constantly topped off through divine plea. This number will vary based on your crit, but ignoring replenishment, divine illumination, divine favour, and GCDs used to refresh beacon / ss / seal / judgements, this number would be around ~170,000 mana with 45% crit rate. At 60% crit, factoring in divine illumination as (HL mana cost / 2)*15 every 3 mins, and including 90% replenishment uptime, you'd need around ~83,000 mana. This is all napkin math, but the point is quite simply that you're not ever going to get "enough" intellect. There may very well be a point where crit > int, but I'd say that it's not attainable at the current gear level.
edit - regarding major glyph selection, I don't value Divinity high enough in PvE at the moment to take it over FoL, which I love for PvP. I'm also considering glyphing both SoL and SoW so that I can switch to higher raw output vs double DPS teams where my mana rarely runs out before my health (or my team mates'). I'd say that there are still a lot of interesting options for glyphs for holy pallies, although I'd also say that that will likely change come 3.1 and dual specs, where the balance between PvP and PvE requirements and gold levels no longer needs to be considered.
How would I configure it to show effective healing only? I just fiddled with the addon and did not see any such option.
You'll want to reinstall the latest version. Versions that came out with the release of 3.0 hadn't addaped to changes in combat log reporting and we're showing all healing instead of just effective healing - no matter how you had the mod set up. Or rather, I assume that's why they were reporting all healing. I guess it could be that they were just coming with that option turned 'on'.
Once I updated the mod and it began reporting correctly, I never went back to see if there was a setting I could manually change. And WoW is still down this morning so I can't go check just yet.
It's really simple to test if this is the case for you though. Just get in combat and cast a heal on a target with full health. If your numbers go up, you're measuring all healing.
Most socket bonuses aren't worth it anyway. It's usually beneficial to pick up socket bonuses that provide Intellect. For example a red socket that provided a bonus of +4 Intellect would be where I'd put a 9 Spell Power + 8 Intellect gem. Also for the Insightful meta, you're best bet is to find your piece of gear that offers the best possible socket bonus and use that piece to get your gem requirements.
For me, I have all +intellect gems, so to meet my requirement I need 1 purple gem. I put a 9 Spell Power + 3 MP5 in the Valorous gloves for the +4 crit bonus. It could have also gone into my legs for the +6 haste bonus (i just got my legs, so I didn't want to regem the gloves i already had).
Most socket bonuses aren't worth it anyway. It's usually beneficial to pick up socket bonuses that provide Intellect. For example a red socket that provided a bonus of +4 Intellect would be where I'd put a 9 Spell Power + 8 Intellect gem. Also for the Insightful meta, you're best bet is to find your piece of gear that offers the best possible socket bonus and use that piece to get your gem requirements.
For me, I have all +intellect gems, so to meet my requirement I need 1 purple gem. I put a 9 Spell Power + 3 MP5 in the Valorous gloves for the +4 crit bonus. It could have also gone into my legs for the +6 haste bonus (i just got my legs, so I didn't want to regem the gloves i already had).
Uh... you probably would've been better off going green int/mp5 in your gloves, and an orange sp/int in your legs to meet the meta, but I guess if you didn't want to regem...
On another note; Does anyone know if WWS lumps the Sacred Shield YOU cast and the procced shield buff together when it's counting buff gains?
Are people continuing to socket full Int now that we've had plenty of time to build up our gear?
I myself am near to what I feel is my ideal gear set. I've got most everything to best in slot (or really near to it - picked up the mace because Turning Tide wouldn't drop, etc). I'm sitting on about 20k mana just from gear alone. Not long ago, I went from full Int gems to a mix of SP and crit with a focus on Crit. The reason why was because my mana pool was never being challenged. Sarth 3D was really the only thing coming close. And even there, healing smartly instead of just blindly chaining HL left we with no mana issues.
My main reason for stacking Int was to take advantage of the mana regeneration of Plea. But in truth, I was ending many many fights with 50% - 70% of my mana still untouched. And it wasn't for lack of trying. 4-5 Healers in a 25-man Naxx, I'm spamming HL left and right and I'm still not even denting my mana pool.
I decided it was safe to sacrifice some of my regen for stronger heals. I focused mostly on crit to take advantage of the mobility given from critting a Holy Shock as well as still retaining more regen than if I'd switched from Into to a pure focus on SP.
Has anyone else found themselves in this situation? Did I make the wrong choice? I still see a lot of people advocating serious Int stacking, but I feel like the 21k unbuffed mana pool given by my gear alone is about all I really need. Obviously, once (if?) harder content comes out, a shift back to Int will probably be needed, but for the time being I can't help but feel like there was a lot of wasted potential in that still mostly full blue bar staring at me at the end of each fight.
well even if you were to gem away from int and more towards spell power and crit your heals are already overpowered for the content if you have most of your gear. I socked all int so im sitting at just over 24k unbuffed mana pool. Even with this i have just shy of 2100SP. Crit is at 39% or 44% for Holy Light and Holy Shock unbuffed. I feel that even changing the int gems to more SP or more crit for this current content is still going to leave you with just more Overheal instead of extra mana left over at the fight since 95% of the current content isnt challanging at all for healers.
01/22/09, 7:33 PM
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