Yeah. I've been thinking about that as well, Wolf. I even considered pushing Haste, but decided against it in the end. I'm still not entirely convinced Haste is not the way to go though.
Has anyone else found themselves in this situation? Did I make the wrong choice? I still see a lot of people advocating serious Int stacking, but I feel like the 21k unbuffed mana pool given by my gear alone is about all I really need. Obviously, once (if?) harder content comes out, a shift back to Int will probably be needed, but for the time being I can't help but feel like there was a lot of wasted potential in that still mostly full blue bar staring at me at the end of each fight.
You say that content is very easy for you right now. If that's true, then there is no sense optimizing your gear for it, particularly if you're going to have to optimize in a different direction for harder content in 3.1. If stacking int is what is needed for hard content, then imo that is what you should be doing. Easy content will continue to be easy, regardless of which way you gear.
(I'm not an expert on holy pallies, and I'm not saying int is the right answer. I'm just saying that easy content is easy regardless of how you gear, and you should always gear for hard content.)
Hi all, I have a quick question regarding some back and forth I've been having with myself on gear selection. First thing's first, here's my armory link for reference: Maddpally armory profile. For quick reference, unbuffed I'm at 19384 mana, 2025 SP, 32.53% holy crit, and 664 haste. So far I've been favoring haste more than other stats in general because I figured since pally heals are all reactive heals, the faster I can get them out the better. However, I am approaching the "soft cap" for haste (around 700?), but with some of the stats that people have been posting up, it seems that on average holy paladins are hovering at around the 500-600 haste range. So I guess my first question is do I have too much haste?
Now, for the real question, I have the token for the Valor helm and shoulders, [Valorous Redemption Spaulders] and [Valorous Redemption Headpiece]. Currently for shoulders and head I'm using [Frostblight Pauldrons] and [Faceguard of the Succumbed]. So my decision has been whether or not to use the 2T7 in place of the non-set shoulders/helm that I'm currently using. My main struggle has been based from my preference for haste, and if you do a quick comparison between the two "sets", then for the T7 I would gain 10 int, 64 crit, a red and yellow slot, and of course the 2T7 bonus; the cost of that is 74 haste and a blue slot. That seems to be like an awful lot of haste to give up, and I guess I just need some opinions on whether or not the benefits of using the 2T7 outweighs the cost of giving up that much haste.
One argument that I've been able to give myself to the side of 2T7 was that with the bonus, my HS will have something like a 50% crit chance, combined with Infusion of Light *should* make up for the lost haste? However, most fights these days I'm doing mostly HL spamming, and don't tend to use HS all that much, so is it just wasting the 2T7 bonus? Should I start using HS more even while HL spamming?
If you don't find yourself using HS a lot then I don't know if you would want the 2 piece set bonus. However with your play style you will want the 4 piece bonus in the end. Especially if you are HL spamming most of the time. I believe it was said to be easier to reach the haste soft cap with the 4 piece bonus if you swap out the T7 helm for [Faceguard of the Succumbed] and use the other four T7 pieces.
I'm not in love with haste myself, but if you honestly like it and are not going oom there is no reason to say you have "too much".
Hi all, I have a quick question regarding some back and forth I've been having with myself on gear selection. First thing's first, here's my armory link for reference: Maddpally armory profile. For quick reference, unbuffed I'm at 19384 mana, 2025 SP, 32.53% holy crit, and 664 haste. So far I've been favoring haste more than other stats in general because I figured since pally heals are all reactive heals, the faster I can get them out the better. However, I am approaching the "soft cap" for haste (around 700?), but with some of the stats that people have been posting up, it seems that on average holy paladins are hovering at around the 500-600 haste range. So I guess my first question is do I have too much haste?
Now, for the real question, I have the token for the Valor helm and shoulders, [Valorous Redemption Spaulders] and [Valorous Redemption Headpiece]. Currently for shoulders and head I'm using [Frostblight Pauldrons] and [Faceguard of the Succumbed]. So my decision has been whether or not to use the 2T7 in place of the non-set shoulders/helm that I'm currently using. My main struggle has been based from my preference for haste, and if you do a quick comparison between the two "sets", then for the T7 I would gain 10 int, 64 crit, a red and yellow slot, and of course the 2T7 bonus; the cost of that is 74 haste and a blue slot. That seems to be like an awful lot of haste to give up, and I guess I just need some opinions on whether or not the benefits of using the 2T7 outweighs the cost of giving up that much haste.
One argument that I've been able to give myself to the side of 2T7 was that with the bonus, my HS will have something like a 50% crit chance, combined with Infusion of Light *should* make up for the lost haste? However, most fights these days I'm doing mostly HL spamming, and don't tend to use HS all that much, so is it just wasting the 2T7 bonus? Should I start using HS more even while HL spamming?
To start off, unless you are trying to fill a raid healing role pallies are anything but a reactive healer. Pretty much the most reactive we get is if the tank takes a spike we can throw a holy shock in before resuming our chain-casting HL. If you want to stack haste so that theres a smaller gap between your HL bombs that's different, but stacking haste so you can stop casting and wait for the damage to come in really isn't a good idea. Regarding your pieces, should definetly stick with the valorous and I'd downgrade to pieces of regular T7 to get the 4 piece bonus if you could. In terms of their opportunity cost, 1 int = 1 haste and 1 crit = 1 haste because of the gem weightings so that pretty much leaves us comparing 1 red + 1 yellow vs 1 blue.
Towards the Crazy Potion, yes the 40% trinket effect affects the mana/health gain from the potion, so Alchemists should always use Crazy pots over Runic ones.
Not always. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I believe you can still get [Potion of Nightmares] for the proc. For some reason raid leaders get quite irate when MT healers knock themselves out on Patchwerk or Sarth with drakes, so you should perhaps keep a small stock of Runics laid in for such fights.
Also, you shouldn't use a Crazy Alchie's until you're at least 13k mana down because you can get a Runic Mana Potion from the proc. It's ... well, crazy.
Perhaps my views are a little off since my Holy Paladin is not my main character (Krillian - WoW Armory), but I don't see why stacking Spell Power would be beneficial at all. With the current content being so easy, I find myself running 50-75% overheal in 25 mans as it is, and adding SP instead of Int or Crit would just make that number larger. HL is such a huge heal anyways that it doesn't seem to me that SP does much. I have chosen instead to focus almost purely on Int and Crit, with some Haste thrown in for good measure.
Not always. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I believe you can still get [Potion of Nightmares] for the proc. For some reason raid leaders get quite irate when MT healers knock themselves out on Patchwerk or Sarth with drakes, so you should perhaps keep a small stock of Runics laid in for such fights.
Also, you shouldn't use a Crazy Alchie's until you're at least 13k mana down because you can get a Runic Mana Potion from the proc. It's ... well, crazy.
If you get a Nightmare Proc, just move your character. Sure, you don't get the extra mana, but you don't lose control either.
I saw on a WWS that the CAP can proc a Runic and get back 12k mana .
Twice now I have experienced "Overheals" from my Holy Light spell wile the target is not at full hp (according to logs and UI). Both times when this happened the combat log shows approx 50% of Holy light as over healing wile the target is below 50% health. Then the following Holy Light is considered 100% Overhealing.
~Side note: One of the times after receiving a 50% incorrect overhealing another player (shaman) had his heal counted as 100% overhealing as well.
Everyone's combat logs show the same thing where the target in question took damage and was then denied healing due to overhealing. This of course resulted in a death which prevented additional data on the target to be recorded.
I have failed to find a Thread or Post on this topic. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
I've been thinking lately about whether or not that [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] is actually BiS. The reasoning behind my doubts lies in the fact that most holy paladins, or atleast I should say the ones who are stacking int and HL spamming will be overhealing about 60-80% of the times. If this is the case, then wouldn't the extra crit/regen/sp from [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] be better than just stacking another 200 spell power onto our overhealing?
On another note, I believe there was a post quite a few pages back in the thread that when using a regular DP CD usage, that the proc from [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] eventually overlap with it and a net gain of regen would be obeserved. As opposed to waiting for [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] to proc and using DP.
IMO you should be going int for balance and longevity or haste for pure throughput. Illustration is garbage, its gonna be more overheal. Id rather use soul for the crit and mana and then the 95 haste trinket from pvp. Honorable mention for the darkmoon card too 90 int is ridiculous and also the badge trink is nothing to scoff at.
Twice now I have experienced "Overheals" from my Holy Light spell wile the target is not at full hp (according to logs and UI). Both times when this happened the combat log shows approx 50% of Holy light as over healing wile the target is below 50% health. Then the following Holy Light is considered 100% Overhealing.
Never had this happen to me.
Are you sure the UI isn't Grid and that there's no hunter pet with same name (or that the target isn't a mage who just used mirror image)?
I've got a question about Holy Paladins and Professions.
Currently I have BS and Enchanting both max level. I used to love enchanting for the money making abilities and the extra ring enchants. It now occurs to me that JC > Enchanting. Not only or the greater stats, but also for the advantage you get when gemming for pure int, still keeping your socket bonuses and meta gems activated.
I asked about this in the guild chat and got responses that it wouldn't be worth the effort, and soon we should get epic gems anyway. I still thinks it's worth the effort, and both PvE and PvP-wise even. (my concern is mainly PvE though)
Any profession rerollers here, or any comments on best holy paladins professions? do you think Enchanting is worth throwing away for JC? I spent so much time and effort leveling Enchanting, obtaining TBC and pre-TBC formulas, etc... So, I'm very very confused about whether I should have BS+JC instead of my BS+Ench. But currently the 38SP from enchanting looks pretty crap as a personal bonus.
I recently made the switch from Herb/Alch to Mining/JC and while I am not to the point with my JC where I can craft the prismatic gems, that is the main reason I am switching. The JC trinkets will be used for my offspec sets as well. If you're leveling mining at the same time it won't be that expensive.
TBH alchemy is so underrated its sad. Mixology is sick. My usual elixir combo gives 60 haste/60 int. Crazy alchemist's pots can proc an extra mana pot, gg 10k mana. For those not in high end guilds the alchemist stone is a nicely balanced option. Arena pots kthx. Get gathering professions on alts so you dont have to give up your JC.
I don't have no problem with the cost of rerolling a new profession. The one and only concern of me is the personal bonus a profession brings. In that sense, I think BS+JC is the ultimate winner for holy paladin. But in today's circumstances, there are yet no epic gems.And surely the gap between prismatic gems of JCs and the upcoming epic gems will be smaller.
I only want to know if Enchanting is worth giving up for JC? if blizzard is ever inclined to add stuff like int enchants on rings, or maybe some superior BoP enchants on armor (say 20int on bracers for enchanter himself/herself instead of the regular 16int one).
As far as professions go, you can only make a decision based on what is available now. Prior to self only sockets Black Smith was a fairly poor option. I believe that Alchemy/Enchanting was considered the best combo for Holy Paladins in Burning Crusade. So who knows what the future brings.
If you are going to take up Jewel Crafting and don't have an Alt Miner then maybe create a Death Knight to be your gatherer. But considering you are a Black Smith at the moment then you probably have it covered.
Did I miss in the patch notes that they where switching the 2 and 4 piece bonus for tier 6 around?
Last edited by EvadDeWahr : 01/25/09 at 9:51 PM.
Reason: For Brevity (to add a question)
I don't have no problem with the cost of rerolling a new profession. The one and only concern of me is the personal bonus a profession brings. In that sense, I think BS+JC is the ultimate winner for holy paladin. But in today's circumstances, there are yet no epic gems.And surely the gap between prismatic gems of JCs and the upcoming epic gems will be smaller.
I only want to know if Enchanting is worth giving up for JC? if blizzard is ever inclined to add stuff like int enchants on rings, or maybe some superior BoP enchants on armor (say 20int on bracers for enchanter himself/herself instead of the regular 16int one).
I agree: the 38 sp from enchanting is rather underwhelming now (put less diplomatically, it's absolutely terrible). I was Alch/Ench in tBC, but dropped enchanting about a month into WotLK once I started seeing JC holy paladins on the Armory. IMO Jewelcrafting is the best profession hands down simply because it gives its bonus while also freeing you from using inferior gems to activate your meta (everyone uses gems whether they are JC'ers or not, so if you're not a JC you automatically lose dps or healing throughput; it's true that new gems will come out eventually, which will be closer in power to our prismatics, however, that does not change the fact that we don't need to use 1Red/1Blue to activate our meta). Furthermore, it's the only profession that enables us to augment our intellect (besides alchemy which was mentioned above). I'd say JC/BS is the most powerful option for unbuffed stats, while to get the full benefit from alchemy you have to use all the consumables. In a world of farm content, you may prefer to be cheap; I just use my stockpile of Distilled Wisdom flasks.
If you're already a BS, I'd say keep that as it synchs with JC anyway. It seems in general that professions with major benefits (in contrast to the crit rating from skinning) give extra spellpower or extra attack power, since Blizzard wants to homogenize the benefits players get from the various profs. However, that does change the fact that some classes scale better with raw stats, i.e. 32 strength from the two extra BS sockets is a lot better for us as Ret than, say, the 64 AP from inscription. The alchemy flask on the other hand gives only attack power. While that does not direct pertain to us in our holy spec, the point is, the BS/JC combo serves us very well as a class.
If you're BS+ench it kinda hurts, because they're both good professions that cost a lot to level, but simply not as powerful as JC. While you can speculate BS increasing and JC decreasing in strength when we're all full of epic gems, it's not nescessarily going to be the case as blizzard will likely continue to work on profession balance in the future. right now they're pretty balanced but depend on your class, with only JC being overpowered and BS working for ALL classes rather than some, which is probably more balanced than it had ever been.
If you're totally hardcore you should drop enchanting for JC, however I personally would wait for harder content to be released before spending (~1200g is what it costed me to level JC, plus you'll have the small possibility of needing to get enchanting back) to gain so little. I also considered to get BS for myself becuase it's simply better to get 36 int than 38 sp, but I think the small difference isn't worth the effort for current content. I think currently you should only really bother rerolling professions if you have bad ones (mostly gathering profs, although alchemy doesn't seem too great either).
I think right now the best choice is blacksmithing and jewelcrafting. Blacksmithing means 2 extra sockets, 32 int or 38 spell power. Jewelcrafting means 33 more int at the very least if you're replacing yellow sockets and even more if you're replacing blues (some gear setups dont have blue sockets depending on the drops you get) and almost as importantly you dont need to socket blue gems to get meta requirements. If you're leveling jewelcrafting, you really dont need to be a miner to do it at any stage in the game so it's not going to cost you your second profession to get JC up.
I'm going to have to disagree with JCing being one of the best two professions for Holy Paladins. For a Retribution Paladin it's undeniably the best profession as there's no cap to the amount of AP/Str you want and the best meta needs two blues to activate, but there is a cap to the amount of mana a Holy Paladin needs and we don't need the JC perk gems to reach it. Without that, the only advantage of JCing is easy meta activation - but with our best meta only requiring one of each colour gem, we can do that with an Enchanted Tear.
I'm going to have to disagree with JCing being one of the best two professions for Holy Paladins. For a Retribution Paladin it's undeniably the best profession as there's no cap to the amount of AP/Str you want and the best meta needs two blues to activate, but there is a cap to the amount of mana a Holy Paladin needs and we don't need the JC perk gems to reach it. Without that, the only advantage of JCing is easy meta activation - but with our best meta only requiring one of each colour gem, we can do that with an Enchanted Tear.
JC has more than just epic intellect gems. Whatever is said for intellect is true for every other stat.
JC allows you to stack more of your current best stat than any other profession currently and has the added benefit of easy meta activation and allowing you to get socket bonuses you wouldn't be able to get otherwise (or you had to use non optimal gems for).
Did I miss in the patch notes that they where switching the 2 and 4 piece bonus for tier 6 around?
It wasn't in the patch notes. They forget to put some changes in the notes every time, human error.
I've got a question about Holy Paladins and Professions.
Currently I have BS and Enchanting both max level. I used to love enchanting for the money making abilities and the extra ring enchants. It now occurs to me that JC > Enchanting. Not only or the greater stats, but also for the advantage you get when gemming for pure int, still keeping your socket bonuses and meta gems activated.
I asked about this in the guild chat and got responses that it wouldn't be worth the effort, and soon we should get epic gems anyway. I still thinks it's worth the effort, and both PvE and PvP-wise even. (my concern is mainly PvE though)
Any profession rerollers here, or any comments on best holy paladins professions? do you think Enchanting is worth throwing away for JC? I spent so much time and effort leveling Enchanting, obtaining TBC and pre-TBC formulas, etc... So, I'm very very confused about whether I should have BS+JC instead of my BS+Ench. But currently the 38SP from enchanting looks pretty crap as a personal bonus.
I am a Profession Reroller. Probably around christmas i went from Mining to JC. I also have Blacksmithing. I think its totally worth it. It make take an initial investment but i made 40k gold back in about 3 weeks not to mention the combo of 27int gems and extra 2 slots from Blacksmithing.
If you are pretty good at watching the AH you can definitely make the gold back plus some.
01/23/09, 1:46 PM
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