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Old 12/28/08, 11:28 AM   #721
Joanna
Von Kaiser
 
Joanna's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kilrogg (EU)
The 'copy' of Holy Light that gets sent to your beacon is actually classed as a completely different spell in terms of what it will proc (i.e - nothing).

As far as Glyph of Awesome spreading 10% of the total vs net, I'm not certain quite what you mean. It already DOES use 10% of the total amount in quite a few situations, explained at the start of this guide. If you mean the tortured logic of checking for the percentage overheal then using a sliding scale to figure what portion to spread has been canned, and it's now a universal 10%, then Yay!

Edit - vis Feya.

Sacred Shield is the sort of thing I really should love and be happy with, and on paper it looks super. The only real use I've found for it is absorbing random damage people take, usually in Heroics more than raids. I largely discount it when tank healing in a 25 man, mainly since the proc is unreliable - if I could guarantee it would be up for every 60k Breath at Sartharion, then super - every little helps.

In truth it's the spell I would have killed for at Mu'ru, but thus far I haven't found a place for it in this expansion.

Last edited by Joanna : 12/28/08 at 11:38 AM.

Nulla in Mundo pax sincera.

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Old 12/28/08, 11:30 AM   #722
Feya
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Yea again, I spoke with a few paladins on the PTR when they changed was implemented and it was highly untested logic. If it does occur, it would be a pretty impressive change.

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Old 12/28/08, 11:34 AM   #723
Apollion
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Paladin
 
The Venture Co
When 3.0 first came out BoL and the HL glyph worked that way, they then patched it in where the HL glyph didnt proc BoL. Id be surprised if they brought it back but maybe they are thinking about doing it since it wont be as powerful as it was originally (100 yard range).

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Old 12/28/08, 1:06 PM   #724
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
SS is something you cast on the tank when he's full HP and can't really benefit from a normal heal, and this happens more than every 30s and will overall do more good than harm.

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Old 12/28/08, 2:02 PM   #725
Malleus
King Hippo
 
Human Paladin
 
Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
Originally Posted by Joanna View Post
Sacred Shield is the sort of thing I really should love and be happy with, and on paper it looks super. The only real use I've found for it is absorbing random damage people take, usually in Heroics more than raids. I largely discount it when tank healing in a 25 man, mainly since the proc is unreliable - if I could guarantee it would be up for every 60k Breath at Sartharion, then super - every little helps.

In truth it's the spell I would have killed for at Mu'ru, but thus far I haven't found a place for it in this expansion.
I would have thought the obvious place to use Sacred Shield was on Loatheb; as an absorption shield, it's not affected by the Aura of Healer Nobbling. I don't use it anywhere else, but on that fight I spam it every CD I'm not Judging, Shocking or Exorcising the boss and it appears quite effective for keeping people on low health alive until the next healing window.

The proc does seem a little weak, though, especially as you have to jump through hoops to tell if you've got it when SS is not on you. It feels a lot to me as if the spell is meant more for Retribution Paladins in an off-healing or self-healing role; even with Sheath spellpower not working to boost it it still neutralises most damage from your Seal of the Martyr, and it makes Art of War Flashes big enough to be useful.

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Old 12/28/08, 3:15 PM   #726
Fleurdumal
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Andorhal
Yeah, I would say SS is a great tool for pvp, since it absorbs a lot of damage and is another instant for us - it effectively allows us to delay playing our trump card for a very long time; whereas it is situational in pve, although if in Naxx10 it's nice to put on the tank if you need to go afk for 30 seconds. You can also throw these on the raid if you feel like limiting the effective healing of CoH and wild growth =) But yeah, in general the synchronicity between the shield and flash of light is as pointless as it is unreliable with sub 1.5 sec HLs.

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Old 12/28/08, 5:03 PM   #727
Zaroua
Don Flamenco
 
Zaroua's Avatar
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by Fleurdumal View Post
Yeah, I would say SS is a great tool for pvp, since it absorbs a lot of damage and is another instant for us - it effectively allows us to delay playing our trump card for a very long time; whereas it is situational in pve, although if in Naxx10 it's nice to put on the tank if you need to go afk for 30 seconds. You can also throw these on the raid if you feel like limiting the effective healing of CoH and wild growth =) But yeah, in general the synchronicity between the shield and flash of light is as pointless as it is unreliable with sub 1.5 sec HLs.
I don't know what you've experienced in terms of PvP at 80, but the Sacred Shield absorption is almost useless against most comps. An extra 2-4k health while being bursted is almost irrelevant. What I'm saying is that if the difference between 20k HP/700 resil and 25khp/1200 resil isn't enough to survive the kind of burst that's being put out (and it isn't when a Mage can do nearly 14k dmg in under 3 seconds without critting), the extra HP won't really help. It makes a slight difference in 2s against healer/dps comps, but that's about it.

Theorycrafting procedures per role:
DPS = Theory -> Spreadsheet -> Practice
Healing = Theory -> Practice -> Logs
Tanking = Theory -> Theory -> Theory

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Old 12/28/08, 5:09 PM   #728
Calantus
Custom User Title
 
Calantus's Avatar
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by Inkompetent View Post
I see many are suggesting to BoL themselves in raids to make sure to stay alive while doing their job, but wouldn't it be wiser (assuming there are more holydins in the raid. I do understand if many are alone in raids due to us being niched to tank-healing) to BoL any other paladin, to give them the Spiritual Attunement benefit, and let us be healed by others to get our Spiritual Attunement?

Or doesn't SA trigger from BoL, which would mean we'd have to beacon the tank and heal the paladin (less prefered)?

I haven't got the chance to raid yet, so I haven't really been able to answer that question on my own
The hitch is that mana doesn't tend to be an issue if you stack int, divine plea on cooldown, and have replenishment. The main reason I do it is because I'm the second-most important person to keep alive on Sapphiron, because I'm the person keeping the most important person alive. If I have to concentrate on healing the tank for a moment and the raid healers fail to keep someone alive, it's not going to be the tank because I got it covered, and it's not going to be me because I have beacon. I also don't BoL other healers because healers tend to heal themselves first.

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Old 12/28/08, 7:00 PM   #729
Lightdevil
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Wildhammer
I don't know about you but I find Sacred Shield really useful in PvP: you got hit, it procs, your holy shock crits -> you get an instant FoL with 80%+ crit. And it absorbs some damage too, some can argue that it's really small but every little bit helps.
Back to PvE, one trick I was told which is very helpful is to have each holy pally (we often run with 2, or with a prot pally in healing gear) cover 1-2 groups in Loatheb fight, and we just refresh sacred shield when we have the debuff which prevents us from healing.
Again, sorry for my bad English.

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Old 12/28/08, 7:22 PM   #730
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Again, sacred shield isn't a spell that is supposed to replace your other heals. It's something you cast when your regular heals are going to overheal anyway, in order to need even less heals afterwards. It's always better to use SS than not, unless you actually never manage to get the tank back to 100% (not realistic), or if he's rage/mana starved (only happens in easy content).

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Old 12/28/08, 7:30 PM   #731
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Goblin Shaman
 
Illidan
The power of SS is that its preemptive healing. You can cast it when there is a no-low amount of healing needed, and then its there as a ~2k damage absorption every 6 seconds. Its just an extra buffer to help prevent the tank from getting bursted.


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Old 12/28/08, 9:48 PM   #732
Jitterberry
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Malleus View Post
I would have thought the obvious place to use Sacred Shield was on Loatheb; as an absorption shield, it's not affected by the Aura of Healer Nobbling. I don't use it anywhere else, but on that fight I spam it every CD I'm not Judging, Shocking or Exorcising the boss and it appears quite effective for keeping people on low health alive until the next healing window.

The proc does seem a little weak, though, especially as you have to jump through hoops to tell if you've got it when SS is not on you. It feels a lot to me as if the spell is meant more for Retribution Paladins in an off-healing or self-healing role; even with Sheath spellpower not working to boost it it still neutralises most damage from your Seal of the Martyr, and it makes Art of War Flashes big enough to be useful.
Recoil damage doesn't proc the shield so it would be fairly ineffective to use whilst raiding, not to mention a waste of mana and a GCD. Art of War Flashes reset your swing timer so are also not recommended to use during raiding unless completely necessary. I really don't think SS was made with Retribution in mind.

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Old 12/28/08, 10:41 PM   #733
Ozball
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Thaurissan
Anyone else noticing BoL healing for more than the original heal? eg I crit heal for about 15.3k and then beacon proceeds to heal the BoL target for 16k+. I'll see if I can find proof in last nights WWS when I get some time.

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Old 12/28/08, 10:52 PM   #734
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Goblin Shaman
 
Illidan
Its effected by +% heal effects, like ToL and Imp Devo. You will also receive smaller Beacon heals while DP is active.


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Old 12/29/08, 4:10 AM   #735
Feya
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Endoscient View Post
The power of SS is that its preemptive healing. You can cast it when there is a no-low amount of healing needed, and then its there as a ~2k damage absorption every 6 seconds. Its just an extra buffer to help prevent the tank from getting bursted.
The problem with this sentence is it not pre-emptive healing. Its a CHANCE to pre-emptively heal.

Consistency/reliability are crucial in future difficult encounters. In saying my original comment, I was merely pointing out that in such an encounter this is not an ability holy paladins should really be using over refreshing beacon or judging or any other miriad cooldowns and timers that need monitoring. It doesn't justify its place in an intense healing fight. It could be retooled though to the point of where it would be useful, by merely allowing the shield and the FoL crit effects to be detached from one another. This would permit Flash of Light oriented builds to be more successful and have a meaningful tool for their kit.

Honestly PvP implications of this are of minor concern to me, so if this was intended as a PvP ability, it only further justifies my original sentiment of it being useless for PvE.

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