EvadDeWahr

Could the OP add to the original post the ability to put BoL on yourself and gain mana from the BoL heals. This is useful technique if there is AOE damage in a 5 or 10 man to keep your mana up.

 

faight

My intent was not to patronize you. I apologize if you misconstrued it as such, and if you feel I have insulted you in any way I do apologize sincerely. I have no issue with my mouse "twitching" and as such I have no issue with mouseover macros; I also only use the mouseover part to heal those who aren't tanking the boss, such as those silly DPSers who stand in the fire.

Perhaps, and this is in no way meant to be derogatory or insulting, if you're having mouse problems you should look in to getting a new mouse? I've used optical mice for years and have had no issue with them messing up in the manner which you describe. Regardless, if you feel uncomfortable using them you should avoid them, after all people operate more efficiently under situations they're comfortable with.

As for your macro situation, have you tried inserting a /stopattack before /targetlastfriend? I would love to test this out before recommending it, unfortunately I am not able to access the game from my current location, and as such I'm unsure if it would help.

 

Silmeria

You're basically looking at 40'ish spell power difference between the two. If you need extra regen, then the Badge is the obvious upgrade. The egg is a bit more interesting with its proc. Judging off Stasis logs: Patchwerk : Essence of Life (3:20 fight), it looks to be on a ICD of 45-50 seconds. It's generally not a very useful proc, since we now have instants introduced to our library, but the proc itself is noticeable when it hits. That being said, I don't feel it's a particularly good trinket beyond the spell power. Basically, if you're looking for a way to stack additional spell power, then that's found here for a relative low amount of emblems.

If your gear level is on the low-end, then I would suggest the Badge until you begin upgrading into level 80 Wrath Blues. Once you begin claiming int from there, you should probably switch your trinkets over to something of a higher iLevel and more particular to what you need (e.g., haste, spell power, crit, etc).

 

• tonic316

Does anyone know if you can double sacred shield a target and both paladin's get the buff when the damage procs it. Reason being is I was going over our KT parse and a paladin in my guild kept SS up most of the fight and had 50% crit rate on her Flash of light and her illumination eclipsed her divine plea mana by 10,000. Where as my divine plea was ahead of my illumination by 2,000 mana. Basically I would like to know if we both sacred shield the main tank will we both get the proc when it goes off.

 

• frmorrison

Since SS has a cooldown of six seconds, it seems SS doesn't stack on the same target. You can cast other SS on other targets though.

 

Silmeria

You can have multiple sacred shields up on the target (providing overlap, basically), however the internal cool down on the ICD buff itself is linked. In addition, whoever cast the most recent sacred shield appears to have priority on the secondary buff (the crit/bubble).

You can see this in the following log. I display the initial casts on two sacred shields on a tank, some initial hits, and the ups/downs of the second sacred shield buff (the crit/shield half). I axed the rest of the damage lines just to condense the log. Note that my sacred shield cast comes after Faryn's, and then all applications of the crit/shield component of SS are attributed to me.

It still warrants some additional testing, but this appears to be the current case. It would be nice to test this with 3 paladins to see the behavior.

 

burghy

Are you SURE this works?

These are my numbers from a sapphiron kill where I used BoL on myself:

 

EvadDeWahr

I will do a test tonight to confirm that it is still working.

 

aquanda

I'm a little confused as to the amount of Mp/5 there is on Plate healing gear. Judging by the OP, after a good amount of spell power, Crit followed by Int is our most important statistic. Why then does so much plate healing gear have Mp/5 and no Crit? I am not disagreeing with the OP, but it makes it very hard to itemize. My question is, what is a good Crit% I should be shooting for pre-25 man raiding? As it stands, I have 1740 SP, 31% Crit, and 223 Mp/5 unbuffed.

Also, I haven't found a macro that can Judge my Focus' Target then return to my last Friendly Target. This is what I've tried, gathered from random posts in this thread:
#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus, exists, harm, nodead] [] Judgement of Light
/stopattack
/targetlastfriend

It casts the Judgement, but will not return to my last friendly target.

The same goes for my Sacred Shield macro.
#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus] Sacred Shield
/targetlastfriend

Does not return to my last friendly target.

I'm clueless with macros so any help is awesome.

 

Ngita

Simply lag, the gear was likely itemised a considerable time before current Paladin mechanics where settled. As for using Beacon heals on yourself to generate mana, I thought I tested this the very first day of 3.0 release and it did'nt work.

 

Endoscient

Int is by far the best stat to stack, it is about 1.5x better then spell power. I should make it more clear in the OP about that.

Your stats are good enough to start Naxx with I think.

I am almost positive BoL on yourself doesn't generate mana, since it is counted as you doing the healing. I just checked in game, it does not.

 

hlubik

Hi,

When browsing here, at maxdps.com, or just checking Rawr for gear upgrades, I noticed that maxdps and Rawr prefer different items, gems.

What I want is guide how to calculate equivalence points for spelldmg/int/crit/haste/mp5, or just where i can find these numbers for pre-Naxx, 10 and 25 Naxx so i can decide on what to roll and what to dis.

Because when i have to decide what to put on myself, im little confused.
- [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond] or [Ember Skyflare Diamond]?
- [Brilliant Autumn's Glow], or [Runed Scarlet Ruby]?
- [Battlemap Hide Helm] or [Helm of Purified Thoughts]?

But with those numbers I can decide quickly just from looking on excel sheet.

Can be these numbers calculated from talent build? if yes, then how?

EDIT: I just found Pawn values thread - so my question now are: Can I trust these numbers for now? How these numbers change with gear and how can i calculate it with different stats?

 

burghy

They won't itemize many items perfectly. It's part of the design.

 

moby3012

I think I would simply prefer the Insightful Earthsiege Diamond here until you hit 1050 int (arcane intelect, motw, divine intelect and Kings included). If you hit this value(which is pretty easy) I think i would prefer the ember Skyflare Diamond, because it delivers you the better int scaling. I think, beside meta gem requirements, that int sockets are the way to go because they give you the best scaling.

The scaling of the metagem is not included here, you can scale all these values with 1.02.

 

hlubik

Maybe I wasn't clear. Examples i wrote there were just examples. My main problem is: how to calculate equivalent points in different stage of raid progress (pre-naxx,naxx10/25,..)

 

Descended

If you evaluate MP5 versus crit in terms of effective healing gained over the whole of an encounter, you need to consider the following factors:

1. Encounter Duration: Assuming the same ratio of spells cast (FoL/HL/HS), MP5's contribution to effective healing scales directly with fight duration. Assuming the same ratio of spells cast, crit's contribution to effective healing scales directly with fight duration, until you run out of mana or slow down the rate at which you cast spells due to impending mana shortage.
2. Total Mana Available: The more total mana you have available to you over the course of an encounter, the more crit gains value relative to MP5. As the amount of casts you can make per minute increases, and the proportion of your mana you can spend on HL/HS rather than FoL increases, the better crit compares to MP5. This means the value of crit relative to MP5 changes with the availability of Replenish, frequency of Divine Pleas, maximum mana pool size, mana gained from consumables, mana gained from Illumination, mana gained from Mana Spring/Mana Tide, etc. This is why you see people state that crit scales with itself; Illumination means that more you crit, the more chances you have to get more crits.
3. Ratio of FoL/HL/HS Casts: I don't believe this matters as much as I guessed it would. The spreadsheet simulations I've run for five minute fights show that the relative value of crit versus MP5 doesn't swing by much unless you cast unrealistically high levels of HL or HS, and even then you don't see the ratios double or halve.
4. Overheal: MP5 does contribute to overhealing, by virtue of providing you with the extra mana wherewith to cast more spells and therefore have the opportunity to overheal. However, the ratio of your effective heals to your overheals shouldn't change due to gaining more MP5. Crit rating, on the other hand, does seem likely to cause an increase in the ratio of overheal to effective heal. You can't wait to heal a tank until he isn't going to be overhealed by a crit, which means the only time you're going to get the full benefit of a crit heal is when 1) more damage occurred than expected between the time you started casting the spell and when it lands or 2) when things are going to hell.

Based on the spreadsheet simulations for pre-Naxx level 80 gear I've been doing, I would rate crit as the 4th most important stat for a holy pally healer, with ratios for five minutes fights something like this: 13 crit rating = 7 spell power = 2 Int = 1 MP5. Because the itemization value of one point of MP5 is 2.5 times the value of one Int, that makes the priority of stats go like this: Int > MP5 > Spell Power > Crit.

 

Endoscient

I would always use an [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond]. Even though Ember would give some more Int, you are totally ignoring the proc on Insightful. Which is worth around 75 mp5, double the old one. Even if you are totally stacked for Int, Insightful will give you more mana then Ember.

 

burghy

Maybe you should rethink your theory. Crit and int are the pair you want to prioritize with healthy amounts of sp and haste. MP5 is the worst stat for paladins atm.

 

Endoscient

1. It is useless to compare mana regen stats in a model that assumes a constant rotation. That is the whole point of mana regen stats, that we can cast more Holy Lights.
2. Yes this is stated in the OP, crit scales with itself and increases your total mana pool by a percent.
3. I am confused at the point you are trying to make here. Mp5 and crit won't change your ratios drastically at first. The useful way to do this is to compare two sets of gear that are each prioritized in different ways (say one Int and one SP) and then compare which can cast how many more Holy Lights.
4. Why would the ratio of overhealing not change with mp5? If you gain more mana then you are going to be casting Holy Light more, when the target has more health, making it more likely to overheal.

I think you end up rating mp5 too high, and crit/sp too low. I would say the priority is Int > Spell Power > Crit = Mp5. It would be useful if you actually posted what your spreadsheet tells you that an equal amount of each stat gives, so we can see how accurate it is.

 

Endoscient

There really is no way to calculate equivalency points and have them be close to accurate. Since the value of all of our stats varies greatly on what our other stats are. It isn't just a matter for different gear levels, because they will change based on what gear/gems you choose. I suggest using Rawr, it will rank all the gear for you pretty accurately.

 

Melnor

I wrote macros just like you have written, but with a sublte twist. Instead of /targetlastfriend, I do a /targetlasttarget. The macros require you to tap them twice to issue both commands.

 

galzohar

It's better to have a very rough and inaccurate approximate calculation of stat values than to just guess which item is better by its looks. So while no spreadsheet/simulator/whatever will ever be perfect, it's more often than not better than nothing. Usually much better.

 

Darkmantle

A very inaccurate approximation half the time would be worse than eye balling. If for example you moderately overvalued MP5 then you might end up with a very weird setup will lots of MP5 pieces/gems/enchants at the expense of many other important stats such as spell power. If a sim was based on a simulated 20 minute fight with low replenishment time then it would be very easy to produce a result where MP5 was far more valuable than it would be in most other situations.

When we eye ball an upgrade we all have our own little stat weighting in our head and see more int, more spl less haste, and think "yeah I'd take that". It isn't like we just pick and choose at random. If you meet someone that decides one stat such as crit is the best and stacks that over everything else even ignoring solid int, spl, haste upgrades then it might be good to introduce them to a very rough stat value, but short of that most raiders are a reasonable judge of what items are good if not optimal.

 

Zarty

Before I bother: has anyone run any numbers as to when it's worth giving up 2 piece or 4 piece T6? Seems like 2 piece could be worthwhile for quite a long time, on HL-heavy fights.

 

midnightwinter

If folks don't mind me asking, I was ogling the darkmoon cards for entry level raid holy, and was wondering about
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
There are strength, spirit, and intellect versions, you can guess which I'm interested in. While I know all that passive int is lovely for the holy of today, I was wondering if people would consider a +300 int proc worthwhile over say, a spellpower or haste proc or click effect.