The Holy Paladin Guide for WotLK - Page 99

Sparty · 02/25/09, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Mex

With unholy aura nerfed, I'm thinking that I'll probably end up going 51/5/15 with only 3% crit for progression. 5% extra healing appeals to me more than 5% crit, and the movespeed will be far more useful that 2% more crit for reacting to new fights.

Also Glyph of Holy Shock would have to be major, that's huge in PvP.

I cant justify 5% more healing when we overheal so much already. The mana return from the crit feels more beneficial as well.

sickening · 02/25/09, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Darios

I don't know about how the Ulduar fights will be but I don't get blizzards statements and their actions:

"there'll be less aoe damage"

and now they buff priest aoe healing to the skies while nerfing ours. We'll just have to wait and see

And in response to your healing meters:

I, for one, am always in the top 3 of Fight healing and 1 on overall healing. as you said it doesn't matter, but I don't see why everyone says they're lower while I'm really high all the time (unless all the other healers in my guild really suck, which they don't). All I can say is that a lot depends on your spell choices, and reaction time.

You are 100% correct. Paladins at the bottom of the healing meters are paladins with poor reaction time or healing assignments are aren't requiring much healing. In any case, worry about who fails their healing assignments more and worry less about the healing meters. Currently our healing is the best its ever been since the launch of TBC.

Roknroll · 02/25/09, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Sparty

I cant justify 5% more healing when we overheal so much already. The mana return from the crit feels more beneficial as well.

it's really going to be impossible to say which is better until we get a few bosses into Ulduar. In current content, I would argue that 5% healing is better when you are fully heroic raid geared. The mana return from crits isn't really a factor because you never go OOM. I liken mana regen to overhealing if you are ending the fight with thousands of mana left. The mana regen added absolutely nothing to your fight, so then it just becomes: how much extra healing did you put out with 5% increased crit. So now that the mana regen aspect of crit isn't a factor, you have to compare the healing output of 5% crit compared to 5% overall healing.

But Blizz has stated that they are still trying to adjust holy paladin mana mechanics, and i see nerfs incoming. My best guess for Ulduar is that we'll want the 5% crit over 5% increased healing.

Apollion · 02/25/09, 12:55 PM

Should actually be 3% crit vs 3% healing, even when we get sanctified seals 2 points in divinity will be left over, 5 points in conviction should be in every build except for if we went back into divine guardian (reason for dual specs right there). The point is the same regardless though, we're looking at burst vs throughput. I'll still stick with throughput until I get to the point where I can do constant HL spam without divine plea.

ElginRoko · 02/25/09, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Apollion

Should actually be 3% crit vs 3% healing, even when we get sanctified seals 2 points in divinity will be left over, 5 points in conviction should be in every build except for if we went back into divine guardian (reason for dual specs right there).

You're forgetting Pursuit of Justice. There's a very strong argument for taking it, 15% faster movement is 13% shorter breaks in casting due to having to move out of the fire, which means you can get the tank back sooner if having to move corresponds with a spike. If you take PoJ then your tier 3 ret is 3 conviction and 2 PoJ, and you've 5 points for conviction/sanc seals vs divinity.

Roknroll · 02/25/09, 2:39 PM

pursuit of justice is a great talent for us. we're not the best mobile healers, so less time moving is a huge help. and we're such powerful healers when not moving that a few % crit or % healing isn't going to matter. So i consider 12 points in Ret mandatory to get pursuit of justice. That leave 8 points, but 3 of those automatically go to the crit talent. So now you have 5 points to do either:
5% healing and 0% crit
0% healing and 5% crit
some combination of the two, depending on playstyle

Corronach · 02/25/09, 3:12 PM

Just to further support PoJ as a solid option, consider that they're nerfing Unholy Aura. So if you want the movement speed enchant you're missing out on icewalker (10crit is okay, 10 hit is nice with Judgements). But the better arguement for PoJ comes from looking at the boss abilities that we know so far from Ulduar. It looks like some fights will have a decent movement component, and unless you're willing to use both talent specs for different healing specs (probably a good idea for the initial Ulduar push) then PoJ may end up being a well-rounded build.

Tzeni · 02/25/09, 3:32 PM

For those of you saying that Paladins should always top healing charts, I went and got some top Naxx25 clears from different guilds to compare: Wow Web Stats

I see a pretty even mix of druids, priests, paladins, and shamans. Only the very top guild (Fusion) shows a paladin healer as the top healer among the top 10 guilds. (sort by Bosses only, to eliminate trash cheesing)

In my own guild, where we 4 healer all the content we're currently doing, our Druid healer tops the charts on most bosses (except for stuff like Patchwerk) and then it's pretty even between the holy priest and me.

I suppose my point isn't that we're underpowered, but I fail to see the evidence that we're currently doing a ton more healing than other classes.

Audiopally · 02/25/09, 3:51 PM

I have a question about my gear. About a week i got from Malygos [Elevated Lair Pauldrons], so i replaced my T7.5 because those shoulders are better. Now; i got [Tunic of the Artifact Guardian], and i dont know if i should replace it with my T7.5 Chest, or put my T7.5 Shoulders instead so i dont lose set bonus.
I want to know whats better, using my T7.5 shoulders and [Tunic of the Artifact Guardian], or [Elevated Lair Pauldrons] with my T7.5 chest.
Thanks in advance.

Heldericht · 02/25/09, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Audiopally

I have a question about my gear. About a week i got from Malygos [Elevated Lair Pauldrons], so i replaced my T7.5 because those shoulders are better. Now; i got [Tunic of the Artifact Guardian], and i dont know if i should replace it with my T7.5 Chest, or put my T7.5 Shoulders instead so i dont lose set bonus.
I want to know whats better, using my T7.5 shoulders and [Tunic of the Artifact Guardian], or [Elevated Lair Pauldrons] with my T7.5 chest.
Thanks in advance.

Use the Tunic with the t7.5 shoulders.

The 7.5 shoulders are itemized quite well with haste and crit instead of wasting itemization points on mp5. However the chest has a lot of haste and mp5 but no crit. So the tunic's crit would be better.

EvadDeWahr · 02/25/09, 9:05 PM

As far as the Lay on Hands no cool down.
I believe they will just change the 4 piece Tier 3 bonus to a 4 min cool down reduction which is 20% reduction on the total time, which is the same ratio as the bonus originally was when the LoH cd was 1hour.
This would make the shortest cd achievable 7mins. Which means that it could be used twice in a long fight which sounds reasonable to me.

MrGuru · 02/26/09, 3:46 AM

Originally Posted by EvadDeWahr

As far as the Lay on Hands no cool down.
I believe they will just change the 4 piece Tier 3 bonus to a 4 min cool down reduction which is 20% reduction on the total time, which is the same ratio as the bonus originally was when the LoH cd was 1hour.
This would make the shortest cd achievable 7mins. Which means that it could be used twice in a long fight which sounds reasonable to me.

That's exactly what they did. The bonus on 4pct3 is now "Reduces the cooldown on your Lay of Hands by 4 minutes."

Moony · 02/26/09, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by Tzeni

For those of you saying that Paladins should always top healing charts, I went and got some top Naxx25 clears from different guilds to compare: Wow Web Stats

I see a pretty even mix of druids, priests, paladins, and shamans. Only the very top guild (Fusion) shows a paladin healer as the top healer among the top 10 guilds. (sort by Bosses only, to eliminate trash cheesing)

In my own guild, where we 4 healer all the content we're currently doing, our Druid healer tops the charts on most bosses (except for stuff like Patchwerk) and then it's pretty even between the holy priest and me.

I suppose my point isn't that we're underpowered, but I fail to see the evidence that we're currently doing a ton more healing than other classes.

Thanks for the link, it was very interesting to compare some healing numbers.

I've seen 2 diferent kind of reports there. Palas that use a lot of flash, and others that hardly press it once (and ofc those who use JOL and the ones who dont)

My healing technique does acomodate a lot of flash heals especialy on trash, but when i do that i have the definate feeling that my HPS is too low compared to the other classes that are grouping with me. I "could" push up and start holy light but honestly it would just overheal most of the time as the tanks at current content dont get a lot of damage (except on a few specific encounters).

I know there's not a "definite" bible to go on the exact right strategy, but i was wondering if most holy light spammers arent just looking at the charts instead of looking at the "right spell at the right time".

Cheers

Caylynn · 02/26/09, 7:12 AM

Originally Posted by Moony

I know there's not a "definite" bible to go on the exact right strategy, but i was wondering if most holy light spammers arent just looking at the charts instead of looking at the "right spell at the right time".
Cheers

Well, not necessarily (I mean, Holy Light "spammers" aren't necessarily topping the charts). In our last Naxx25 clear (granted, we brought way more healers than we needed to) one of our other holy pallies, who uses a lot more Flash of Light than I do, topped the overall healing charts:

Naxx 25 clear.

The paladin topping the overall healing charts had the following breakdown in spells used:
FoL; 42%, HL: 26%, GoHL:12%, Beacon:10%, Holy Shock: 9%

I use a lot more holy lights (although I don't spam them) and I was number 3 on the overall healing chart:
HL: 47%, GoHL: 21%, FoL: 19%, Beacon: 7%, Holy Shock: 6%

The fights where I did top the healing charts were Gluth and Gothic (I was on undead side) and I was #2 on Sapphiron, after our ret pally, since Judgement of Light heals for a lot on that fight. And I topped the heals on trash mobs, but I'm not sure what that says!

I did miss one entire fight though, since one of our DKs went the wrong way on the first charge on Thaddius, and managed to kill me.

Curiously, I had more overheal on my FoLs than on my HLs!

Wraithguard · 02/26/09, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by Roknroll

pursuit of justice is a great talent for us. we're not the best mobile healers, so less time moving is a huge help. and we're such powerful healers when not moving that a few % crit or % healing isn't going to matter. So i consider 12 points in Ret mandatory to get pursuit of justice. That leave 8 points, but 3 of those automatically go to the crit talent. So now you have 5 points to do either:
5% healing and 0% crit
0% healing and 5% crit
some combination of the two, depending on playstyle

tbh - I don't see the point in wasting points on PoJ - all other classes seem to be able to deal with it fine and with the changes to holy shock and instant FoLs and even SSs there is not much wasted time while running. Splicing those two points onto crit seems ALOT more favorable - healing wise and mana wise.