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Old 08/12/09, 10:28 AM   #1501
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Blackthought View Post
Is there a version of the Bellator/Exemplar spreadsheet that has been updated for 3.2?
Yes. Link is in the new Ret 3.2 thread initial post. Please use the Filefront link (had problems with FTP to the private server - haven't had time to iron out issue which is purely on my end).

Does not have all the mail and leather from 10/25man Coliseum, expect that in the near future.

Edit: Forgot to mention, for clarity all items are loaded once and I'm using the Alliance-side names for my own purposes. Sorry to all the Belf out there.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 08/12/09, 11:25 AM   #1502
Thorin
Von Kaiser
 
Thorin's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Medivh
I've browsed around the 3.2 Holy Thread and have seen that the most mentioned builds are 51/0/20 and 51/20/0, but haven't seen a link to them yet, though I did get an idea from the posters' armory links.

1) Does anyone have a link to these builds?

2) This is a question of playstyle, but are the 20 points in Ret worth the loss of Divine Sacrifice when it comes to healing output?

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Old 08/12/09, 2:37 PM   #1503
jpegg
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sen'jin
Tankadin enchant of choice

For tankadins, potency replaced 40 spell damage as the weapon enchant of choice after the 3.0 changes. Now that Wrath has gone live, which enchant will be favored? Looking over what's now available for one-handed weapons, unless I'm missing something there does not appear to be a strength enchant. Here's the choices I see:

Superior Potency - 65 attack power (why is potency now AP instead of strength? /sigh at no block value)
Exceptional Agility - 26 agility (~.5% dodge, seems pretty lackluster)
Accuracy - 25 hit, 25 crit (the hit would be beneficial but this doesn't seem like a very good choice at all)
Mighty Spellpower - 63 spell power (guessing this isn't worth it at all anymore, even though it is a lot of spell power)
Berserking - chance on hit to increase your attack power by 400 at the cost of reduced armor (I'm assuming this tradeoff would cause Berserking to be scratched off the list)

I don't really like the sounds of any of these. I'm guessing that since paladin abilities now scale with AP as well as SP, Superior Potency will be the best choice, but compared to the old Potency enchant none of these choices seem particularly good. Am I missing something? Am I off the mark on my analysis?
I personally like the Titanium Weapon Chain on my weapon. It has some +parry, and well as helps you on a few fights that disarm you. You don't see them as much as you used to, "Maiden in Karazhan", but it is nice just incase. The other chants just don't really do it for me.

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Old 08/13/09, 12:53 AM   #1504
Junlex
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Anachronos (EU)
Originally Posted by jpegg View Post
I personally like the Titanium Weapon Chain on my weapon. It has some +parry, and well as helps you on a few fights that disarm you. You don't see them as much as you used to, "Maiden in Karazhan", but it is nice just incase. The other chants just don't really do it for me.
Titanium Weapon Chain is 28 hit rating, not parry, so it's basically a cheaper Accuracy, gaining 3 hit rating and the disarm duration (which is of such rare benefit in PvE that it can essentially be ignored) at the expensve of 25 crit rating. Whilst crit isn't exactly the best threat stat out there, 25 crit vs 3 hit clearly lands in the favour of the crit.

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Old 08/13/09, 3:50 AM   #1505
vorda
Bald Bull
 
vorda's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Since 3.2, Blade Warding and Blood Draining are both very good enchants. Blade Warding being the more random of the two.
This is because:
Blade Warding: procs considerably more since 3.2, for the same reason that DMC:G procs almost the second it comes off cooldown.
Blood Draining: it is no longer possible for the heal to actually have a higher chance to get you killed due to AD leapfrogging. It now always is effective healing when you need it the most.

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Old 08/13/09, 5:18 AM   #1506
Sansei
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Nagrand (EU)
Originally Posted by Thorin View Post
I've browsed around the 3.2 Holy Thread and have seen that the most mentioned builds are 51/0/20 and 51/20/0, but haven't seen a link to them yet, though I did get an idea from the posters' armory links.

1) Does anyone have a link to these builds?

2) This is a question of playstyle, but are the 20 points in Ret worth the loss of Divine Sacrifice when it comes to healing output?
1) The 51/0/20 or 51/20/0 has a common factor of the 51 holy talents and they're basically here
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Idea about talents in prot is to take imp. RF, divine sac and stronger Sacred Shields with prolonged duration. Idea in ret talents is basically the 8% crit and pursuit of justice.

Some take 51/2/18 neglecting pursuit of justice talent, which in my opinion is a bad choice, since the run speed will let you have a different enchant on boots, it's a better run speed which will allow you to start running after you finish your cast, stop early due to smaller travel time and eventually ending with more than 2% healing that the 2 points in divinity can give you.

2) "Depends" is what you will get as an answer in many cases. Divine Sac has practically 5 minutes CD since you don't want to use it without bubble. XT is one exception that you can use HoP and DiSac, but that's it. There are fights where the 40% damage reduction for 10 seconds on raid is a saver. On the other hand, the crit will give you a higher output without gimping your other stats since it doesn't come as a preference on gear, but from talents. It'll give you some mana regen even after 3.2 and increase your personal output.

Main difference is holy/prot build is mainly for utility where holy/ret build is basically for higher output for you personally.

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Old 08/13/09, 9:51 AM   #1507
justyips2
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Borean Tundra
quick simple question: I am specced RET. My question is this. If I am the only Paladin in an instance group should I be self buffing Kings or Might?

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Old 08/13/09, 10:12 AM   #1508
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by justyips2 View Post
quick simple question: I am specced RET. My question is this. If I am the only Paladin in an instance group should I be self buffing Kings or Might?
Might is Superior DPS in a vacuum.

Two scenarios you might want Kings:
1) If there's a survivability issue, swap to Kings for the health benefits.
2) If you have 2+ warriors and one is tanking, you should be giving Warriors Kings. This means the tank doing Commanding and the other Warrior will want to Battle Shout him/herself. Unimproved Battleshout + Kings > Improved Might.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 08/13/09, 11:28 AM   #1509
Cassey
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
I understand that Sacred Shield does not stack now. As a holy pally if I cast it on our Prot tank and he casts it what happens? My shield will absorb a lot more than his due to my SP so I want mine to be up.

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Old 08/13/09, 11:59 AM   #1510
Sansei
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Nagrand (EU)
Originally Posted by Cassey View Post
I understand that Sacred Shield does not stack now. As a holy pally if I cast it on our Prot tank and he casts it what happens? My shield will absorb a lot more than his due to my SP so I want mine to be up.
You must tell him to not cast it on himself then since if I'm not fooled by false icon displays, it does overwrite a sacred shield of the same sort.

I think it doesn't overwrite if two people have different number of talent points in Divine Guardian talent (not same sort SS) as I haven't seen my SS overwrite other holy paladin's SS. He uses 51/0/20 and I use 51/20/0 but the prot pala and me both have maxed Divine Guardian talents which causes our SSs to overwrite each other.

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Old 08/13/09, 1:40 PM   #1511
tous
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Uldaman
Howdy, long time reader but first time posting(big fan!)

Two simple(I hope) prot questions.

The first, is a mitigation question. More theory then practice, but meh. Assuming my character has 30% Dodge, 25% parry, 10% chance to be missed (65% chance to take no damage), and 37.5% block, I have 102.5% and am unhittable, the only hits I take are blocks, and I only receive damage if they overcome my block value. I understand this (I hope lol), but when happens when my block is high then the defecit of my raw mitigation, aka, I have 30% dodge, 25% parry, 10% miss, and 37.5 block, but lets say I pop holyshield, putting me to 67.5% block. Does this cause me to take MORE blocks because it is the highest percent, more blocks meaning more incomming damage(like on a raid boss, lets say patchwerk)? or is the chance to block always last in the totem poll as it were, making it have no affect after filling the defecit?


The second question is a machanical question, the Shield spike available, that does like 47-67 damage or w/e when stuck. Do these retaliation strikes cause judgement/seals to proc? Ive noticed ret aura procs some trinkets(the chance to do damage on strike ones, like the holy horn quest reward jobber in Zuldrak) and it got me thinking. I was debating about making a 2nd proc talent set, that forgoes major threat generation, and focuses purely on good old self survival, for fights wear threat is a non issue. So I was thinking, if this spike could cause the self healing seal to proc, aswell as the judgement, that tied with divinity, and imp. Devo aura, should be some significant HP returns. Anyone confirm weather this works or not?

Thanks in advance. Tous.

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Old 08/13/09, 6:34 PM   #1512
Hamsda
Piston Honda
 
Hamsda's Avatar
 
Goblin Priest
 
Mannoroth (EU)
Originally Posted by tous View Post
The first, is a mitigation question. More theory then practice, but meh. Assuming my character has 30% Dodge, 25% parry, 10% chance to be missed (65% chance to take no damage), and 37.5% block, I have 102.5% and am unhittable, the only hits I take are blocks, and I only receive damage if they overcome my block value. I understand this (I hope lol), but when happens when my block is high then the defecit of my raw mitigation, aka, I have 30% dodge, 25% parry, 10% miss, and 37.5 block, but lets say I pop holyshield, putting me to 67.5% block. Does this cause me to take MORE blocks because it is the highest percent, more blocks meaning more incomming damage(like on a raid boss, lets say patchwerk)? or is the chance to block always last in the totem poll as it were, making it have no affect after filling the defecit?


The second question is a machanical question, the Shield spike available, that does like 47-67 damage or w/e when stuck. Do these retaliation strikes cause judgement/seals to proc? Ive noticed ret aura procs some trinkets(the chance to do damage on strike ones, like the holy horn quest reward jobber in Zuldrak) and it got me thinking. I was debating about making a 2nd proc talent set, that forgoes major threat generation, and focuses purely on good old self survival, for fights wear threat is a non issue. So I was thinking, if this spike could cause the self healing seal to proc, aswell as the judgement, that tied with divinity, and imp. Devo aura, should be some significant HP returns. Anyone confirm weather this works or not?
Regarding your first question: have a look at the Attack table on wowwiki.
You'll see that miss, dodge and parry are higher up the list so they will push your excessive block% from the table^^ You won't take more damage by using holy shield but it won't give you any block%. If one has such high values of avoidance and block, you should consider dropping some of the block to get stamina or dropping some points out of redoubt...

As far as I know only melee strikes (auto, cs, ds, hotr and in some cases judgement) will cause your seal and most effekts to procc, sorry about your selfheal set :P

There are only 10 types of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Old 08/14/09, 6:44 AM   #1513
Dulkal
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Hamsda View Post
Regarding your first question: have a look at the Attack table on wowwiki.
You'll see that miss, dodge and parry are higher up the list so they will push your excessive block% from the table^^ You won't take more damage by using holy shield but it won't give you any block%. If one has such high values of avoidance and block, you should consider dropping some of the block to get stamina or dropping some points out of redoubt..
I wouldn't drop redoubt for that reason. I take it for the added block value, not the block chance.

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Old 08/14/09, 11:54 AM   #1514
Hamsda
Piston Honda
 
Hamsda's Avatar
 
Goblin Priest
 
Mannoroth (EU)
Originally Posted by Dulkal View Post
I wouldn't drop redoubt for that reason. I take it for the added block value, not the block chance.
Sorry messed up there, my bad.

There are only 10 types of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Old 08/15/09, 7:02 AM   #1515
justyips2
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Borean Tundra
I recently dual specced into holy( I took for the team you could say). Our guild was short on healers. So I have a gear question. I have been reading about stat choices on gear and SP and Haste seem to come most. Are these the most important or do I still need to focus on Hit rating first then work from there?

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