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Old 09/29/09, 11:58 AM   #1651
Soher
Von Kaiser
 
Soher's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ragnaros (EU)
I'd do it with a modifier:

#showtooltip Repentance
/stopcast
/cast [modifier:SHIFT, target=focus] [target=mousover] Repentance

Last edited by Soher : 09/29/09 at 12:06 PM.

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Old 09/29/09, 1:06 PM   #1652
jdh79
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Stormrage
Any other holy paladins have problems with ret/prot pallies in raids refusing to let you have wisdom buffed. As a holy pally, if there is more than one pally in a raid, I want to have kings and wisdom. I have actually run in raids with myself and a ret or prot pally where the ret/prot will just buff sanctuary or might and I will buff kings. Last night, I asked to be single buffed wisdom and the ret pally refused saying "you don't need the mana regen, pallies should never go OOM" This is despite the fact that ret pallies can use a minor glyph that lets them buff wisdom to pallies then give a 30 min might on themselves.

It's bad enough that I have to spend 2 talent pts for improved BoW, but can never get the improved version of wisdom buffed on myself unless there are 4 or more pallies in the raid because the ret/prot pallies refuse to use lesser blessings.

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Old 09/29/09, 1:40 PM   #1653
Haelfdane
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by jdh79 View Post
Any other holy paladins have problems with ret/prot pallies in raids refusing to let you have wisdom buffed. As a holy pally, if there is more than one pally in a raid, I want to have kings and wisdom. I have actually run in raids with myself and a ret or prot pally where the ret/prot will just buff sanctuary or might and I will buff kings. Last night, I asked to be single buffed wisdom and the ret pally refused saying "you don't need the mana regen, pallies should never go OOM" This is despite the fact that ret pallies can use a minor glyph that lets them buff wisdom to pallies then give a 30 min might on themselves.

It's bad enough that I have to spend 2 talent pts for improved BoW, but can never get the improved version of wisdom buffed on myself unless there are 4 or more pallies in the raid because the ret/prot pallies refuse to use lesser blessings.
With as few as 2 Paladins in raid, it will be difficult for you to have your imp wisdom. If the other Paladin is prot, he will need Sanc and Kings. That means he should give you short wisdom, but there's no way for you to use your imp wisdom unless you use it on yourself instead of Kings. No good way around that. If they are ret, they'll need kings and might, so the same thing will happen (one could argue you short buff might on the ret, but more likely the extra DPS from his imp blessing is worth more than the MP5 on yours). No reason they can't give you short wisdom, but that's the only good option. Having the ret go without kings or might or the prot go without sanc or kings is worse than you having base wisdom instead of your talented one. Getting wisdom on you is a matter of using lessors, but being able to use your imp version is not.

If people are having difficulty handing this very simple blessing layout, they should be using an add-on like pally power.

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Old 09/29/09, 1:57 PM   #1654
jdh79
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Stormrage
Well, with sanctuary giving 10% STR and STA now, all a prot pally loses from not having kings is the extra INT. They are probably better off with Sanc+Wis then Sanct+kings because 109 mp5=1308 mana/minute which is more than the amount you'll get from relenishment/divine plea and having 10% more mana on like a 5500 mana base pool. Yes, the extra AGI means more crit, but since no prot gear has AGI on it, you're looking at a very minimal difference. Why wouldn't a prot pally buff kings with lesser sanctuary on himself, while a holy pally buffs wisdom (and possibly lesser might on the prot pally if he prefers threat over regen).

For a ret/holy pally combo, the holy should buff lesser kings on the ret and lesser wisdom on himself, and the ret should buff lesser kings on the holy pally and lesser might on himself. That way, everyone gets their best buffs. But, it requires ret/prot pallies who are not too lazy to use single blessings.

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Old 09/29/09, 2:29 PM   #1655
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Remember that Mana Spring totem from a Shaman is raid wide. With even a single Shaman in the raid it is highly likely this will be dropped because too many classes need Sanct/Kings/Might, potentially in addition to Wisdom. A Resto Shaman is guaranteed to have Restorative Totems (otherwise no Mana Tide) - this brings their totem to par with Imp BoW.

Resto, Elemental, and Enhance all drop Mana Spring - Healing Stream, Cleansing, Fire Resist are all situational.

If you're talking of 2 other Paladins, more than likely you're discussing 25man. Hopefully you have at least one Shaman for Heroism, if nothing else. Shaman are also useful for the same reasons in 10man - potentially more useful than a third paladin.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 09/29/09, 2:38 PM   #1656
jdh79
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Stormrage
Unless you have a resto shaman (I typically do not run with one in either 10 or 25 man), improved BoW is superior to mana spring. Totems also have a 30 yard range, have to be redropped during the fight and are lost if the shaman dies, unlike blessings. Plus, if there are 2+ pallies, the first shaman should always use healing stream since it is unique and stacks with JoL.

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Old 09/29/09, 2:58 PM   #1657
Haelfdane
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by jdh79 View Post
Well, with sanctuary giving 10% STR and STA now, all a prot pally loses from not having kings is the extra INT. They are probably better off with Sanc+Wis then Sanct+kings because 109 mp5=1308 mana/minute which is more than the amount you'll get from relenishment/divine plea and having 10% more mana on like a 5500 mana base pool. Yes, the extra AGI means more crit, but since no prot gear has AGI on it, you're looking at a very minimal difference. Why wouldn't a prot pally buff kings with lesser sanctuary on himself, while a holy pally buffs wisdom (and possibly lesser might on the prot pally if he prefers threat over regen).

For a ret/holy pally combo, the holy should buff lesser kings on the ret and lesser wisdom on himself, and the ret should buff lesser kings on the holy pally and lesser might on himself. That way, everyone gets their best buffs. But, it requires ret/prot pallies who are not too lazy to use single blessings.
The agi isn't for crit only, it's for armor and dodge. Wisdom is pretty much completely useless for tanking. Prot has no issues with mana on 25 man (and none if played right even in 5man). Even Might is more useful for prot than wisdom for the agro. I know you want to use your improved blessing, but with only 2 paladins it's just not practical unless both are holy, sorry. The only time Prot mana really dips is unloading the initial agro burst, and even then a larger starting amount of mana from Kings is far more useful than some MP5.

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Old 09/29/09, 3:12 PM   #1658
jdh79
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Stormrage
Prot paladins do not have AGI itemized on any of their gear, so they are going to be sitting at the base AGI, which is about 110 IIRC. So, kings gives +11 AGI, which is completely marginal in terms of dodge/armor.

Plus, with a holy and prot pally, the prot pally can have sanctuary/might and the holy pally can have kings/improved wisdom if people aren't too lazy to use single blessings.

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Old 09/29/09, 3:14 PM   #1659
Jackinthegreen
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by jdh79 View Post
Any other holy paladins have problems with ret/prot pallies in raids refusing to let you have wisdom buffed. As a holy pally, if there is more than one pally in a raid, I want to have kings and wisdom. I have actually run in raids with myself and a ret or prot pally where the ret/prot will just buff sanctuary or might and I will buff kings. Last night, I asked to be single buffed wisdom and the ret pally refused saying "you don't need the mana regen, pallies should never go OOM" This is despite the fact that ret pallies can use a minor glyph that lets them buff wisdom to pallies then give a 30 min might on themselves.

It's bad enough that I have to spend 2 talent pts for improved BoW, but can never get the improved version of wisdom buffed on myself unless there are 4 or more pallies in the raid because the ret/prot pallies refuse to use lesser blessings.
Any person who says a healer doesn't need mana regen at all has no idea just how much pressure is on a healer. Given that Mp5 is an excellent stat for Holydins and Wis is Mp5, it's kind of a "duh" statement that we should get it.

Also of note is that Kings will buff Agility, so both prot and ret get something from it. Remember that prot uses the frosthide leg armor, which has agi (dodge, armor, and a bit of threat), so base agi is not the case.

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Old 09/29/09, 3:21 PM   #1660
Haelfdane
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by jdh79 View Post
Prot paladins do not have AGI itemized on any of their gear, so they are going to be sitting at the base AGI, which is about 110 IIRC. So, kings gives +11 AGI, which is completely marginal in terms of dodge/armor.

Plus, with a holy and prot pally, the prot pally can have sanctuary/might and the holy pally can have kings/improved wisdom if people aren't too lazy to use single blessings.
This is wasting way too much space in this thread. A "marginal" benefit to a stat that gives threat, mitigation and avoidance to a tank is much better than a completely useless MP5, and while might is threat, I'd rather have the little extra avoidance and mitigation from kings. I'm not sure there's anything else to argue about. Prot does not need wisdom at all, Kings and Sanc are still the two most beneficial raid blessings for prot. Do what you want in your own raid, I'm just explaining to you why prot wants kings and sanc.

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Old 09/29/09, 4:32 PM   #1661
Gaeryth
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Sunstrider (EU)
Are there any numbers on the value of hit rating beyond the melee cap? I've found myself stuck with loads of hit and would very much appreciate it. Can't run Rawr on my mac, have tried but it crashes immediately.

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Old 09/29/09, 9:33 PM   #1662
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by jdh79 View Post
Prot paladins do not have AGI itemized on any of their gear, so they are going to be sitting at the base AGI, which is about 110 IIRC. So, kings gives +11 AGI, which is completely marginal in terms of dodge/armor.

Plus, with a holy and prot pally, the prot pally can have sanctuary/might and the holy pally can have kings/improved wisdom if people aren't too lazy to use single blessings.
Say the base is 110, armor patch is around 20, Horn/SoE for another 150/175, Mark for 37, and note that Agility is 97% as good as dodge for reducing damage (this is adding up the dodge + armor) if you have Kings, then you get some crit on top.

Certainly you can do single blessings, but many people are lazy since normally they last for 30 minutes.

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Old 09/30/09, 4:49 AM   #1663
Ele
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Originally Posted by Kayvaun View Post
So i've searched the forums and internet and can't find anything usable. My question is macro based. I want a pvp repentance macro so that it will always cast repentance on my focus target if i have one but cast it on my mousover/normal target if i don't have one. Here is what i have so far but it doesn't work. Any help would be much appreciated.

/stopcast
/cast [target=focus, exists] [target=mousover, harm] Repentance
Try this:

#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus, exists, nodead] Repentance; /cast Repentance

It will cast on your focus target if you have one and it's an alive unit, else it'll cast it on your standard target.

You can do this with many macros, what's past the semicolon has to be read like "else do this".

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Old 09/30/09, 8:03 AM   #1664
Arrok
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Anub'arak (EU)
Originally Posted by Kayvaun View Post
/stopcast
/cast [target=focus, exists] [target=mousover, harm] Repentance
Maybe you should try 'mouseover' in your macro.

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Old 09/30/09, 3:05 PM   #1665
kharen
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by jdh79 View Post
Any other holy paladins have problems with ret/prot pallies in raids refusing to let you have wisdom buffed. As a holy pally, if there is more than one pally in a raid, I want to have kings and wisdom. I have actually run in raids with myself and a ret or prot pally where the ret/prot will just buff sanctuary or might and I will buff kings. Last night, I asked to be single buffed wisdom and the ret pally refused saying "you don't need the mana regen, pallies should never go OOM" This is despite the fact that ret pallies can use a minor glyph that lets them buff wisdom to pallies then give a 30 min might on themselves.

It's bad enough that I have to spend 2 talent pts for improved BoW, but can never get the improved version of wisdom buffed on myself unless there are 4 or more pallies in the raid because the ret/prot pallies refuse to use lesser blessings.
The way i handle buffing with one ret, one holy (i'm ret/prot, the other is prot/holy) is that we both buff greater kings, but overwrite our own with glyphed+talented might/wisdom. Do it in the right order and you should end up with both of you having greater kings, and each having half-hour (and fully talented, provided you each have the talents for your own blessing) single might/wisdom.

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