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Old 12/06/08, 10:23 PM   #276
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
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Originally Posted by Secondary View Post
Assuming we get PoJ from Ret, what would be the best boot enchant for holy? Icewalker is tempting for a very minor amount of crit and some hit to help with judgments, but would the mp5 from Vitality have better return?
Icewalker is better. The hit is good when you Judge. You never want to enchant/gem for MP5, unless the gem is for a Meta.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 12/06/08, 11:42 PM   #277
 Theras
Egalitarian Charmer
 
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Aurrius
Tauren Paladin
 
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Originally Posted by sniper1227 View Post
Hello,

Could I please get a quick rundown of what minimum & recommended stats would be for a Holy Paladin healing in WotLK Heroics, 10/25 man raids would need to be?

Main items such as HP, Mana, Crit, SP, Mp5, & Haste.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you.
There's not really a threshold for any given stat at which you're "ready" or "not ready". Your stats don't look that far off from my healers when we started Naxx-10 this week, and they can handle heroics pretty easily, too. What I'd suggest you do is scan through the loot lists for all of the WotLK Dungeons on Heroic difficulty, pick what you think would be the best items for any given slot, and hit them like a fiend every night. You'll be well beyond "ready" before you know it.

If you're looking for specific gearing advice, I'd place a strong emphasis on spell power, crit, and intellect and you'll probably find that all of your other stats tend to fall into place naturally without even taking a second look at them.

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Old 12/07/08, 8:26 AM   #278
Thelawgiver
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Bleeding Hollow
im looking for assistance with using this spreadsheet. It's my first time using it, and I want to actively update the spreadsheet with my gear information to get fresh information on what's the best for me as my character gets new items. I know how to input the data of my items and enchants and whatnot, but I don't know how to compare them with new items. can anyone assist me here?

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Old 12/07/08, 1:09 PM   #279
sniper1227
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Could you name the spreadsheet you are asking about?

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Old 12/07/08, 2:09 PM   #280
Bakony
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightninghoof
Question about blessings.

My ten man raid frequently runs with one Paladin, myself as holy. I'm the main healer. Is it worth it to lose 3% crit from the ret tree to gain max rank Kings for the Tanks and others?

Having said that, would it be better for me to give myself improved Wisdom or max rank Kings? The main benefit would be an increase in Int.. My buffed mana pool is kinda small about 19k without King.

Thanks you.

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Old 12/07/08, 10:01 PM   #281
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
If speccing kings means even 1 extra person in the raid gaining it, it's probably worth speccing. For yourself kings and imp wisdom aren't far off and depend on your stats/raidbuffs and possibly your need for HP, but normal wisdom + kings is clearly a winner over just improved wisdom. For more specific numbers, see rawr.

Non-improved kings is a joke, if you're going to take kings, spend 5 points in it.

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Old 12/08/08, 4:54 AM   #282
Tzikas
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by Tzikas View Post
Holy Shield charges proc Twilight Torment; known bug or "fun" feature?
I guess no-one else has encountered this then? Time to poke about the official forums (*shudder*) then I guess

EDIT: If anyone else should be interested to follow up on this issue I created a post here: World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Holy Shield vs. Sartharion adds

Last edited by Tzikas : 12/08/08 at 5:39 AM.

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Old 12/08/08, 4:54 PM   #283
Erzz
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Priest
 
Andorhal
So, any thoughts about a holy paladin rolling on [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] over a caster dps? I mean it's an okay hps upgrade, (though not much, as most of the time a holy paladin is keeping both the mt and ot up on a boss fight and it would only affect two targets), but wouldn't the [The Egg of Mortal Essence] be better in terms of hps, and the [Figurine - Sapphire Owl] be much better in terms of efficiency?

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Old 12/08/08, 5:23 PM   #284
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
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Dragon Soul is 260 spell power (once you cast 10 times) for the entire flight. While nice for healing, I like to see dps casters using that, since it is hard to overdamage a target, while overheal is common.

Dragon Soul is best in slot by a long shot for dps.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 12/08/08, 6:20 PM   #285
 Theras
Egalitarian Charmer
 
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Aurrius
Tauren Paladin
 
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While an [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] is pretty super nice for a Holy Paladin kit (I think it's something like second or third best in slot, depending on whether or not you're a Jewelcrafter), but not by a huge margin. For a DPS caster, on the other hand, it's about twice as good as the next best trinket.

While I'd certainly want one myself, I see it as a bit of a dick move to take over the DPS.

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Old 12/08/08, 8:31 PM   #286
Dantos
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Bloodhoof
A quick question, or rather a request for clarification.

Judgements. They are a spell, yes? If so, I assume they rely on crit and not agility? I'm only curious because although it seems like they can be silenced, it doesn't trigger certain things related to spells. Specifically, Judgements don't seem to activate the spellpower effect on Darkmoon Card: Crusader.

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Old 12/08/08, 10:34 PM   #287
sihyunie
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Bonechewer
I have macro related question.
I play hunter and a friend of mine plays a paladin.
I use
/cast kill shot
/cast steady shot
macro, and I suggested to my friend that similar macro could be useful for ret as well.
However, my friend says such macro doesn't work. For instance
/cast divine storm
/cast crusader strike
only casts divine storm, and when reversed, only casts crusader strike.
We fiddled around with the macro, using cast time spells for the second skill and etc, but none of them seem to work.
Is there something special about ret pallies that prevent such macro?

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Old 12/08/08, 10:56 PM   #288
Kyoghin
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Khaz Modan
A quick question, or rather a request for clarification.

Judgements. They are a spell, yes? If so, I assume they rely on crit and not agility? I'm only curious because although it seems like they can be silenced, it doesn't trigger certain things related to spells. Specifically, Judgements don't seem to activate the spellpower effect on Darkmoon Card: Crusader.
Yes, judgements are still spells and are still affected to silence mechanics and with the merge of crit, they use both crit rating and agility. Since 3.0, judgements no longer trigger the spellpower effect of the Card but instead affects the AP portion. The only spells that do is the first tick of concecration and Seal of Vengence/Corruption I believe.




Originally Posted by sihyunie View Post
I have macro related question.
I play hunter and a friend of mine plays a paladin.
I use
/cast kill shot
/cast steady shot
macro, and I suggested to my friend that similar macro could be useful for ret as well.
However, my friend says such macro doesn't work. For instance
/cast divine storm
/cast crusader strike
only casts divine storm, and when reversed, only casts crusader strike.
We fiddled around with the macro, using cast time spells for the second skill and etc, but none of them seem to work.
Is there something special about ret pallies that prevent such macro?
I'm not an expert on macros but I suggest try using a castsequence macro like such

/castsequence Crusader Strike, Divine Storm

I'll confirm if this will work until someone with actual knowledge shares their thoughts and reasoning why your macro is not working for your paladin friend. Just something I quickly thought of for the sake of a quick response. Advance apologies if it doesn't work.

Last edited by Kyoghin : 12/08/08 at 11:39 PM.

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Old 12/08/08, 11:35 PM   #289
Prinsesa
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Echo Isles
Dantos: according to Blizzard, Judgements are a ranged attack, although the actual trigger indicates that it is a melee attack which is specially flagged to never be dodged and never be parried.

In either case, both produce the same result for your question - they use (AGI + crit rating) to determine their crit rate, as opposed to a spell using (INT + crit rating), they will also crit for 200% damage untalented and will only proc the AP part of [Darkmoon Card: Crusade].

With regards to silence-able abilities, it's quite inconsistent. Crusader Strike can be cast while silenced. Divine Storm could NOT be cast while silenced back when it was Holy damage, but you can cast it while silenced now that it's physical, but then Hammer of the Righteous can be cast while silenced even though it still deals Holy damage.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

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Old 12/09/08, 2:01 AM   #290
Merovengian
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Blackwater Raiders
I am currently using [Mirror of Truth] and [Hourglass of the Unraveller] as my trinkets, and since my guild is slacking and making darkmoon cards is going slow to put it mildly... I was curious if [Sundial of the Exiled] would be an upgrade over my hourglass. I assume that the spellpower gain only applies to judgement/seal/HoW/Exorcism/HW, feel free to correct me on that one.

[Crusader's Locket] is also sitting in my bank, and since it has, in theory, about the same AP gain as the hourglass.. i guess im kind of at a loss. Bottom line, do i go for the crit and so-so SP gain or have i completely missed another wonderful trinket to stick in that slot until I'm able to proc out my last few Nobles cards?

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Old 12/09/08, 2:42 AM   #291
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
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Originally Posted by Merovengian View Post
o i go for the crit and so-so SP gain or have i completely missed another wonderful trinket to stick in that slot until I'm able to proc out my last few Nobles cards?
Unless you have nothing better to do with badges, do not get the crit + sp proc trinket, because Judgements will NOT proc the trinket.

Use the Crusader one instead.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 12/09/08, 7:49 AM   #292
Russta
King Hippo
 
Human Paladin
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Does [Meteorite Whetstone] suck for Retribution Paladins or something?

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Old 12/09/08, 10:17 AM   #293
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Russta View Post
Does [Meteorite Whetstone] suck for Retribution Paladins or something?
It doesn't suck, but it's not insane, either. Many Ret still think Crit is a phenomenal stat. Str and AP are far more useful. [Incisor Fragment] beats it easily. [Crusader's Locket] also beats it for raw DPS.

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Old 12/09/08, 10:40 AM   #294
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
I would use the Whetstone instead of the Crusader trinket, largely because of the differing procs.

While haste is bad, 444 haste is a large difference. Crusader's proc of expertise (which means those attacks will never be dodged) is useful, but less so imo than haste.


While you don't want to stack crit, having more of it helps Mirror of Truth proc.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 12/09/08, 12:57 PM   #295
Gavinisbest
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Silver Hand
Gemming questions

Is it a bad thing that Im only slotting +24 stam gems over avoidance gems? Im only doing it because of ToL, and thought its better to increase threat. Mind you, Im also going for mitigation over avoidance, but is that a bad thing?

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Old 12/09/08, 1:08 PM   #296
Jebraltar
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Staghelm
Having a larger HP pool tends to be a better use of gems than socketing for avoidance, especially considering that things like Sartharion with all three drakes up or Malygos involve gargantuan single-hit magic damage on you.

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Old 12/09/08, 2:17 PM   #297
Greywood
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Blackhand
Spell power and healing at 80

I have a friend who swears up and down that healing classes should not use level 70 gear (even tier 6) at 80 because of item decay. I realize that defense, crit, hit, parry, and dodge ratings all lose value as you level, however, he is claiming things like spell power and mp5 decay as well. I quickly took out some of my old tier 5 and 6 healing gear, and compared it with level 80 healing blues, and the gains are exactly what the item says it should be. Would anyone care to confirm either way on this topic? Your input is appreciated.

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Old 12/09/08, 2:23 PM   #298
Jebraltar
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Staghelm
The only reason not to use level 70 gear at 80 is that there's much better gear available, there's no "decay" built-in.

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Old 12/09/08, 2:31 PM   #299
Greywood
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Blackhand
Thank you, and yes, it was simply that a blue item had not been looted that had better spell power and such as of yet. My friend was claiming that greens with less spell power would be more beneficial because of "decay" to the items.

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Old 12/09/08, 2:39 PM   #300
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
The only reason ratings decay as you level, is so that the new lvl80 items with much higher ratings won't get you to absurd numbers like 80% crit etc (note this is why the only stats that decay are %-based). For spellpower, attack power and mp5 it isn't needed, though, as you're expected to do more damage as you level and abilities cost more mana.

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