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Old 02/14/10, 7:07 PM   #2071
gcbirzan
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by ragemustang View Post
Most prot pallys are going to be using JoW anyways, JoL doesnt provide enough that it really counts in my opinion, and if your healers have the much trouble keeping you healed you need either more stam, or you need to bee using seal of light instead of vengeance/corruption.
JoL by itself may not keep you alive, but nor will most talents and pieces of gear. It all adds up though, increasing your survivability. Not only that, but it will also increase the surivability of your whole raid, which in the long run adds more damage on the boss than the slight increase in DPS a couple of classes get from using JoW. To put it into perspective, on our last Blood Queen kill, JoL accounted for ~4k HPS on the whole raid and ~2.5% of the healing on the tanks. So while its value may be somewhat situational (less raid damage will make its value drop significantly), I'd still pick JoL as the judgement to always have on the boss.

Last edited by gcbirzan : 02/15/10 at 2:11 AM.

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Old 02/20/10, 9:20 PM   #2072
wtf_gamer
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Andorhal
WMO breakdown question

I've been studying a few of my WMO reports

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

Is one for festergut i'm using the t9 2 piece rotation
Judgement > HoW > CS > DS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath.

I'm wondering why my melee is above my SoV damage?, Is it because I don't have the t10 2 piece yet or because my crit is so low?

Last edited by wtf_gamer : 02/22/10 at 12:16 PM.

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Old 02/21/10, 12:51 AM   #2073
Glutton
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kalecgos
Crit is not a cause of any relative damage difference in seals versus melee hits. Things like 4P T10 and TAiaJ will cause your SoV seal damage % to increase relative to other damage sources.

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Old 02/21/10, 3:22 AM   #2074
chinoquezada
Von Kaiser
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by wtf_gamer View Post
i've been studying a few of my WMO reports

WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay

is one for festergut i'm using the t9 2 piece rotation
Judgement > HoW > CS > DS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath.

i'm wondering why my melee is above my SoV damage, is it because i don't have the t10 2 piece yet or because my crit is so low?
You should be doing JoL>CS>DS>HoW>Cons>Exo>HW

Damage details look good.

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Old 02/21/10, 12:21 PM   #2075
wtf_gamer
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Andorhal
Originally Posted by chinoquezada View Post
You should be doing JoL>CS>DS>HoW>Cons>Exo>HW

Damage details look good.

Hmm, I'm wondering where you are getting that rotation?

From (Retribution: Updated for 3.3)

I've been doing
"If you have 2pc T9 equipped your best clash resolution is: Judgement > HoW > CS > DS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath. "

The rotation change in Rawr doesn't seem to actually change my dps output numbers, I'll have to play a bit at the dummies, does it have something to do with amount of AP raid buffed to modify the rotation from the basic (JoL>CS>DS>HoW>Cons>Exo>HW)


Edit: Rawr update now factors rotation into dps, confirms your rotation of "JoL>CS>DS>HoW>Cons>Exo>HW" thanks for the input.

Last edited by wtf_gamer : 02/24/10 at 3:50 PM.

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Old 02/25/10, 10:21 AM   #2076
gryborn
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Whisperwind
Spreadsheet

Is there a spreadsheet for paladin tanks similar to the one for combat and mutilate rogues?

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Old 02/28/10, 5:03 PM   #2077
Dextrax
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by darthceltic View Post
There is no haste cap. We don't want to stack mp5. Haste of 700 only caps flash of light to 1 second, but more brings holy light down. This is why haste/mp5, haste/crit, and crit/mp5 in that order are best for gear choices. Mp5 is superior regen then crit. Haste is superior throughput then crit.
This leads me to a question. Does this apply for both FoL and HL paladins? As a FoL paladin I find Haste/Crit gear to be best and Mp5 to be of minimal need. With full spellpower enchants and gems I end most fights with 40-60% mana remaining and all my mana cds still unused. I am at 28k mana buffed and only have 350 mp5. I don't see a need for any more haste or mp5 so that leaves crit as the best stat to increase w/o losing haste.

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Old 02/28/10, 7:07 PM   #2078
 Mex
Sour Bear Mojo
 
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Mex
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
'FoL paladins' (note that how you gear / glyph has no effect on the spells you can cast) were a short-lived phenomenon resulting from the fairly unique healing challenges posed by ToC combined with the 4T9 bonus. The shift towards extended tank death scenarios as opposed to nigh-instantaneous bursts in ICC has re-emphasised throughput over extreme granularity, the end result of which being that maximising HL casts is once again the most effective means of counteracting most tank deaths.

That said, the answer to the question is actually no, it does not apply to FoL as a spell, which is effectively capped at 676 haste (assuming full raid buffs -- if you lack 3% haste, 5% spell haste, or JotP falls off, this number will be higher). Extra haste will lower the cast time below 1 second, however the GCD will remain at 1, effectively preventing you from taking advantage of any cast speed increase beyond that point.

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Old 03/01/10, 11:44 AM   #2079
Cardano
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Nordrassil
Originally Posted by Dextrax View Post
This leads me to a question. Does this apply for both FoL and HL paladins? As a FoL paladin I find Haste/Crit gear to be best and Mp5 to be of minimal need. With full spellpower enchants and gems I end most fights with 40-60% mana remaining and all my mana cds still unused. I am at 28k mana buffed and only have 350 mp5. I don't see a need for any more haste or mp5 so that leaves crit as the best stat to increase w/o losing haste.
For FoL spam, there is no benefit to more haste once you have FoL down to
1 GCD = 1 sec [cast time] = 676 haste [raid buffed].
At that point you have throughput capped yourself via Haste [using FoL only].
Crit would be the only 'choosable' stat that you would have left to increase your throughput.
MP5 will help with regen which you already admit you dont need.
And you would have already maxed your SP with gear/gemming/chanting.

That being said, if you can keep your tanks alive through FoL spam, then you dont need anything more gear wise.
If your tanks are dieing and you need more throughput, switching to HL spam is the easiest way to increase ( massively ) your throughput. But then, you might suddenly find yourself with a drastic lack of mana.

I couldn't find any parses from your guild, if you have them, that would certainly help us understand why you are losing people ( which is the reason I assume you are looking for guidance on improving your gear selection ).

So I guess my recomendation would be, if you need more throughput and are mostly FoL spamming, cast more HL and see where that leaves you. If that leaves you with 2 tanks who are alive until you run OOM, then you need more MP5 or start gemming for INT.

I have to admit I am impressed that you can make it through Festergut+90% phase with FoL Spam and a 28k mana pool. At ~40k mana, I dump almost my entire mana pool chain casting HL with a speed pot and wings.

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Old 03/03/10, 8:30 PM   #2080
Dextrax
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Cardano View Post
That being said, if you can keep your tanks alive through FoL spam, then you dont need anything more gear wise.
If your tanks are dieing and you need more throughput, switching to HL spam is the easiest way to increase ( massively ) your throughput. But then, you might suddenly find yourself with a drastic lack of mana.
Currently I am not having an issue keeping tanks alive with FoL spam. The reason for my inquiry is because my personal BiS list allots 730 or so haste 350 mp5 and the majority of my gear will be/is crit/haste. From reading the past posts it seemed to me that this was wrong and I would be better off with more mp5 rather than crit. I am not looking to go HL to increase my throughput, just maximize my throughput as FoL.

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Old 03/04/10, 11:59 AM   #2081
Capstone
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Lightbringer
As he said, haste above 676 is absolutely useless if you are not casting HL. Not sure how you missed that. You don't need mp5 either for flash spam.

As an example, I downloaded your character from Armory and optimized it for FoL spam. You would swap your SoW glyph for SoL, put a Potent Ametrine in your gloves, change all other gems except for the gems in your helm to spellpower gems, and change your head enchant to the Kirin Tor enchant. This would net you over 8k HPS on FoL while still being able to spam casts for over 10 minutes straight without the use of Divine Plea. Swapping some of that useless haste for crit would increase your throughput and longevity further.

This is by no means a recommendation for flash spam, just idle thoughts on how to tune your character better for what you're trying to do.

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Old 03/09/10, 7:21 AM   #2082
Marlah
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Bloodscalp (EU)
Is Frost Resistance gear advised for Sindragosa 25man normal mode?

If so, what value is to aim? What items are recommended to use?

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Old 03/09/10, 11:32 AM   #2083
Glutton
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kalecgos
Frost Resistance helps but it's not mandatory on normal mode. A good rule of thumb would be as much as possible while remaining crit immune. This is going to vary based on what kind of gear you have to choose from. If you want a gear list, search wowhead with Frost Resistance as a filter.

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Old 03/09/10, 7:27 PM   #2084
Mythilo
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Auchindoun (EU)
So I'm planning to respec my Paladin to Retri out of boredom from my previous spec.

Simple question: What are the best two pre-raid trinkets I can get? I'm already hit capped from other gear I already have, so the Triumph emblem trinket's only use will be it's on-use effect.

Small note: Being on a Mac computer, Rawr doesn't work for me. Is there any Rawr-like programs that work on Mac computers so I won't need to ask this question another time?

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Old 03/10/10, 2:44 AM   #2085
Soher
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ragnaros (EU)
Originally Posted by Mythilo View Post
So I'm planning to respec my Paladin to Retri out of boredom from my previous spec.

Simple question: What are the best two pre-raid trinkets I can get? I'm already hit capped from other gear I already have, so the Triumph emblem trinket's only use will be it's on-use effect.

Small note: Being on a Mac computer, Rawr doesn't work for me. Is there any Rawr-like programs that work on Mac computers so I won't need to ask this question another time?
If you have some spare emblem of frost then the Herkuml War Token is a great choice (only if you don't have access to raid trinkets imo). The other nobrainer is the Greatness, as only Tiny Abo in a Jar (264/277), Death Choice (245/258), Whispering Fanged Skull (251/264) and maybe the already mentioned emblem trinket (HWT), but that highly depends on your gear and trinkets.

EDIT. If I were you I'd buy the 2pc T10 before getting the emblem trinket tho. For preraid trinkets DMC:Greatness and Mirror of Thuth (40 Emblem of Heroism) is a decent combination.

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