Has anyone observed odd behavior from JoL? For me it seems to proc like crazy, often up to 3 procs from a single hit, much like the old bugged JoW used to. Anyone else have similar experience?

simple question: why are the old threads locked? I searched for a post on this, but I miss my ret theorycraft thread. Thanks.

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You're probably experiencing nearly simultaneous JoL procs from an auto attack and an ability used that hit at the same time. This can give the illusion of multiple JoL procs from the same hit.

You are correct. The currently available weapon enchants in WotLK are underwhelming for a prot paladin. Most agree that BC's Potency is still the best enchant as it offers almost as much AP as Superior Potency when you factor in +15% strength from talents and +10% from kings and it gives some BV. Unless some new enchants are introduced, or the current ones are revised, you'll see a lot of prot paladins walking around with good old potency on their weapons instead of something new and exciting.

Following up on what Jasari said:

For threat, the rule of thumb is roughly:

1 str ~= 2 block value ~= 3 AP

This puts the +65AP enchant about even with +20str from a threat perspective. Since the str enchant also improves mitigation, it's pretty clearly better than +65AP.

Worth noting is that HotR and SotR can both crit, and SotR especially is a large chunk of our total threat generation, so the accuracy and agility enchants aren't as bad as they might look from a TBC perspective.

(Incidentally, the rule of thumb above also works well for selecting soloing gear.)

[e]: Also, on further thought, if threat isn't an issue (and by all accounts it isn't at least through T7) then the decision should really just be based on mitigation/avoidance, which narrows it down to potency (block value) vs agility (dodge).

I know in the Ret thread there was discussion over a 'ghost' hit. That if you had Precision 3/3 people were reporting a 'ghost' 3% hit.

My question is, are people still getting that 'ghost' hit or was it corrected?

True that it's been discussed before, but it's such a basic piece of information that I think it's worth posting in this thread.

The basic tanking rotation is what's called a 6/9 rotation (or 969 or some other combination of those numbers.) The idea is that you alternate between abilities with a 6-second cooldown (HotR, SotR) and abilities with a 9-second cooldown (Judgement, Holy Shield, Consecration). This requires one point in Improved Judgements, and it requires that you not have the Consecration glyph.

Basically, it looks like this:

(HotR) [Judge] (SotR) [HS] (HotR) [Cons] (SotR) [Judge] (HotR) [HS] (SotR) [Cons] and repeat.

6-second abilities are in parentheses, 9-second abilities in square brackets. It may look a bit complicated, but if you have a good display of cooldowns it's not hard to maintain, since once you get the order set up it basically amounts to "use whatever's not on cooldown".

Unfortunately, the Prot paladin threat rotation is GCD-locked, so you can't add anything (exorcism, divine plea, avenging wrath, avenger's shield) to the rotation without displacing something else.

I know the ghost hit from Precision was removed on my character.

However, I am not sure the 1% ghost hit from Ret Aura was removed.

Could someone comment on leveling specs?

Specifically, I have a prot pally at 70 that will likely be the next toon I level. Is there a consensus on a proper "prot leveling spec"? is the strategy to AoE grind melee mobs whenever possible, or is there another method I should consider?

Would I be significantly better off just speccing retribution for leveling (my most important criteria are total time spent and the ability to solo-quest effectively)

My starting gear on my pally is early T6-ish if that helps or changes the answers at all. Thanks.

I hit level 79 this morning, thanks to 2 days of vacation and the weekend, levelling as prot from my 70 spec in T5+ gear. (With respect to "prot levelling spec" -- I used the James guide for Howling Fjord, then Dragonblight, then Borean Tundra (after the crowd had cleared). Once that was done, I just headed into Grizzly Hills around level 76, cleared a couple levels and got the quest achievement, and then headed to Storm Peaks.

As you alluded to, questing is probably faster levelling than instances, though you can usually get a spot in a group as tank spec. When you hit level 71, get Divine Plea, use it whenever you can. Ditto at 75 for Shield of the Righteous. It hits like a monster. You can pretty much skip the other trainings from what I've seen.

I started out in "semi-tank gear" -- I had the S4 ret gloves and S3 ret helm, plus a Chestguard of the Warlord gemmed for +strength, and expertise capped in my tanking gear. It's really not too painful with JoW/Divine Plea. I could also solo many of the "(Group 3)" quests in Howling Fjord, taking on +1 level elites without needing to blow any cooldowns except maybe a potion. Shield of Righteousness is great for single-target dps -- probably about 330dps (1.5k hit, 3k crit) in my current gear without a lot of particular attention to block value. I did put 3 points into shield of the templar for


Right now, it seems to me that BC Potency, Agility (0.5% dodge and crit), and Accuracy are probably good weapon enchants. Since I'm a blacksmith, I'm also looking at Titanium Weapon Chain for the disarm reduction -- with our new focus on instant melee attacks, losing your weapon/shield hurts almost as much as it would for a warrior.


I haven't noticed "Ghost" hit from previously having Precision before it was removed from the tree; I had it before 3.0.2, but I might have re-specced once between then and Wrath, plus I'm a single data point.


Our new tanking rotation is really tight -- I feel like I spend too much time watching the GCD. Does anyone have any suggestions for an addon which will let me track the GCD without having to look at my keyboard? I'm also getting the hang of weaving in e.g. Divine Plea and possibly Cleanse into my rotation, usually replacing Consecration.