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Old 11/17/08, 3:41 AM   #16
Valerys
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Has anyone observed odd behavior from JoL? For me it seems to proc like crazy, often up to 3 procs from a single hit, much like the old bugged JoW used to. Anyone else have similar experience?

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Old 11/17/08, 11:49 AM   #17
Pyre
Soda Popinski
 
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Anjar (retired)
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Neverest View Post
Hi, right now lvling my ret paladin and about gear selection. From the theorycraft post, seems Strength>ap>hit>crit>hast>armor penetration. Is there any more specific number for better comparison? Like Strength is 1, crit is 0.33, so I can use them to compare and select gears while lvling up?
I doubt such numbers would be useful, for three reasons. First, the numbers depend on the gear you already have, so it's difficult to take any single piece of gear in isolation and give it an exact value.

Second, the numbers depend on your level, since values change significantly as you level up. Two prime examples of these changes are rating conversions, and stat value changes as new spells become available (ShoR, for example, boosts the relative value of block value when you get the ability).

Finally, leveling is trivial, so min-maxing during the leveling process is suboptimal. Grab new gear as it drops in your lap, but you'll level faster by just plowing through, rather than stopping to try and have the perfect set of leveling gear that you'll be replacing in a few levels anyway.

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Old 11/17/08, 1:27 PM   #18
dochobbs
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Dragonblight
locked threads?

simple question: why are the old threads locked? I searched for a post on this, but I miss my ret theorycraft thread. Thanks.

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Old 11/17/08, 1:33 PM   #19
Aerynlore
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by dochobbs View Post
simple question: why are the old threads locked? I searched for a post on this, but I miss my ret theorycraft thread. Thanks.
Elitist Jerks - Announcements in Forum : Public Discussion

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Old 11/17/08, 2:18 PM   #20
Jasari
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Blackwing Lair
Originally Posted by Valerys View Post
Has anyone observed odd behavior from JoL? For me it seems to proc like crazy, often up to 3 procs from a single hit, much like the old bugged JoW used to. Anyone else have similar experience?
You're probably experiencing nearly simultaneous JoL procs from an auto attack and an ability used that hit at the same time. This can give the illusion of multiple JoL procs from the same hit.

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Old 11/17/08, 2:33 PM   #21
soylentorange
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Drenden
For tankadins, potency replaced 40 spell damage as the weapon enchant of choice after the 3.0 changes. Now that Wrath has gone live, which enchant will be favored? Looking over what's now available for one-handed weapons, unless I'm missing something there does not appear to be a strength enchant. Here's the choices I see:

Superior Potency - 65 attack power (why is potency now AP instead of strength? /sigh at no block value)
Exceptional Agility - 26 agility (~.5% dodge, seems pretty lackluster)
Accuracy - 25 hit, 25 crit (the hit would be beneficial but this doesn't seem like a very good choice at all)
Mighty Spellpower - 63 spell power (guessing this isn't worth it at all anymore, even though it is a lot of spell power)
Berserking - chance on hit to increase your attack power by 400 at the cost of reduced armor (I'm assuming this tradeoff would cause Berserking to be scratched off the list)

I don't really like the sounds of any of these. I'm guessing that since paladin abilities now scale with AP as well as SP, Superior Potency will be the best choice, but compared to the old Potency enchant none of these choices seem particularly good. Am I missing something? Am I off the mark on my analysis?

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Old 11/17/08, 2:41 PM   #22
Jasari
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Blackwing Lair
Originally Posted by soylentorange View Post
For tankadins, potency replaced 40 spell damage as the weapon enchant of choice after the 3.0 changes. Now that Wrath has gone live, which enchant will be favored? Looking over what's now available for one-handed weapons, unless I'm missing something there does not appear to be a strength enchant. Here's the choices I see:

Superior Potency - 65 attack power (why is potency now AP instead of strength? /sigh at no block value)
Exceptional Agility - 26 agility (~.5% dodge, seems pretty lackluster)
Accuracy - 25 hit, 25 crit (the hit would be beneficial but this doesn't seem like a very good choice at all)
Mighty Spellpower - 63 spell power (guessing this isn't worth it at all anymore, even though it is a lot of spell power)
Berserking - chance on hit to increase your attack power by 400 at the cost of reduced armor (I'm assuming this tradeoff would cause Berserking to be scratched off the list)

I don't really like the sounds of any of these. I'm guessing that since paladin abilities now scale with AP as well as SP, Superior Potency will be the best choice, but compared to the old Potency enchant none of these choices seem particularly good. Am I missing something? Am I off the mark on my analysis?
You are correct. The currently available weapon enchants in WotLK are underwhelming for a prot paladin. Most agree that BC's Potency is still the best enchant as it offers almost as much AP as Superior Potency when you factor in +15% strength from talents and +10% from kings and it gives some BV. Unless some new enchants are introduced, or the current ones are revised, you'll see a lot of prot paladins walking around with good old potency on their weapons instead of something new and exciting.

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Old 11/17/08, 4:49 PM   #23
Cathela
Still Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Earthen Ring
Following up on what Jasari said:

For threat, the rule of thumb is roughly:

1 str ~= 2 block value ~= 3 AP

This puts the +65AP enchant about even with +20str from a threat perspective. Since the str enchant also improves mitigation, it's pretty clearly better than +65AP.

Worth noting is that HotR and SotR can both crit, and SotR especially is a large chunk of our total threat generation, so the accuracy and agility enchants aren't as bad as they might look from a TBC perspective.

(Incidentally, the rule of thumb above also works well for selecting soloing gear.)

[e]: Also, on further thought, if threat isn't an issue (and by all accounts it isn't at least through T7) then the decision should really just be based on mitigation/avoidance, which narrows it down to potency (block value) vs agility (dodge).

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

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Old 11/17/08, 5:36 PM   #24
Kuthumii
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Thrall
I know in the Ret thread there was discussion over a 'ghost' hit. That if you had Precision 3/3 people were reporting a 'ghost' 3% hit.

My question is, are people still getting that 'ghost' hit or was it corrected?

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Old 11/17/08, 5:37 PM   #25
Sozar
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightninghoof
Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
Should there be a specific rotation for tanking, and if so what is it? If there isn't, what are the priorities considering threat, cooldown and possibly mana cost? When HoW/divine plea/AW come up where would it fit best?
A quick search came up with this post: Protection and you!

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Old 11/17/08, 6:10 PM   #26
Cathela
Still Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Earthen Ring
True that it's been discussed before, but it's such a basic piece of information that I think it's worth posting in this thread.

The basic tanking rotation is what's called a 6/9 rotation (or 969 or some other combination of those numbers.) The idea is that you alternate between abilities with a 6-second cooldown (HotR, SotR) and abilities with a 9-second cooldown (Judgement, Holy Shield, Consecration). This requires one point in Improved Judgements, and it requires that you not have the Consecration glyph.

Basically, it looks like this:

(HotR) [Judge] (SotR) [HS] (HotR) [Cons] (SotR) [Judge] (HotR) [HS] (SotR) [Cons] and repeat.

6-second abilities are in parentheses, 9-second abilities in square brackets. It may look a bit complicated, but if you have a good display of cooldowns it's not hard to maintain, since once you get the order set up it basically amounts to "use whatever's not on cooldown".

Unfortunately, the Prot paladin threat rotation is GCD-locked, so you can't add anything (exorcism, divine plea, avenging wrath, avenger's shield) to the rotation without displacing something else.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

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Old 11/17/08, 6:44 PM   #27
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Kuthumii View Post
I know in the Ret thread there was discussion over a 'ghost' hit. That if you had Precision 3/3 people were reporting a 'ghost' 3% hit.

My question is, are people still getting that 'ghost' hit or was it corrected?
I know the ghost hit from Precision was removed on my character.

However, I am not sure the 1% ghost hit from Ret Aura was removed.

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Old 11/17/08, 6:54 PM   #28
turturin
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Warlock
 
Kilrogg
Could someone comment on leveling specs?

Specifically, I have a prot pally at 70 that will likely be the next toon I level. Is there a consensus on a proper "prot leveling spec"? is the strategy to AoE grind melee mobs whenever possible, or is there another method I should consider?

Would I be significantly better off just speccing retribution for leveling (my most important criteria are total time spent and the ability to solo-quest effectively)

My starting gear on my pally is early T6-ish if that helps or changes the answers at all. Thanks.

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Old 11/17/08, 7:07 PM   #29
Smithist
there's the phone
 
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Troll Monk
 
Llane
Originally Posted by turturin View Post
Could someone comment on leveling specs?

Specifically, I have a prot pally at 70 that will likely be the next toon I level. Is there a consensus on a proper "prot leveling spec"? is the strategy to AoE grind melee mobs whenever possible, or is there another method I should consider?

Would I be significantly better off just speccing retribution for leveling (my most important criteria are total time spent and the ability to solo-quest effectively)

My starting gear on my pally is early T6-ish if that helps or changes the answers at all. Thanks.
As far as specs go I just went with a fairly generic tanking spec but am using Reckoning as I find it to be quick nice for solo content. I've read some people chose to wear more DPS oriented gear and possibly use BoW, but my ret gear was very lackluster so I wore a mostly traditional tank set with BoSanc.

The kill times are not fantastic against single mobs, but of course being prot means you'll kill a pack of them in about the same time, which speeds things up. The other big advantages being your ability to solo basically every group quest you run into and that you can hop straight into an instance if you'd like. Once you get to 75 things really change with SotR and killing a single mob becomes much faster.

Really it's just a matter of how you prefer to play. I leveled to 70 mostly as prot and I just enjoy the play style and the ridiculous durability you have. The tools we gained in Wrath mean that killing single mobs is no longer quite so inefficient and there's still all the other perks that go with being prot.

Last edited by Smithist : 11/17/08 at 7:17 PM.

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Old 11/17/08, 8:24 PM   #30
Andris
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Suramar
I hit level 79 this morning, thanks to 2 days of vacation and the weekend, levelling as prot from my 70 spec in T5+ gear. (With respect to "prot levelling spec" -- I used the James guide for Howling Fjord, then Dragonblight, then Borean Tundra (after the crowd had cleared). Once that was done, I just headed into Grizzly Hills around level 76, cleared a couple levels and got the quest achievement, and then headed to Storm Peaks.

As you alluded to, questing is probably faster levelling than instances, though you can usually get a spot in a group as tank spec. When you hit level 71, get Divine Plea, use it whenever you can. Ditto at 75 for Shield of the Righteous. It hits like a monster. You can pretty much skip the other trainings from what I've seen.

I started out in "semi-tank gear" -- I had the S4 ret gloves and S3 ret helm, plus a Chestguard of the Warlord gemmed for +strength, and expertise capped in my tanking gear. It's really not too painful with JoW/Divine Plea. I could also solo many of the "(Group 3)" quests in Howling Fjord, taking on +1 level elites without needing to blow any cooldowns except maybe a potion. Shield of Righteousness is great for single-target dps -- probably about 330dps (1.5k hit, 3k crit) in my current gear without a lot of particular attention to block value. I did put 3 points into shield of the templar for


Right now, it seems to me that BC Potency, Agility (0.5% dodge and crit), and Accuracy are probably good weapon enchants. Since I'm a blacksmith, I'm also looking at Titanium Weapon Chain for the disarm reduction -- with our new focus on instant melee attacks, losing your weapon/shield hurts almost as much as it would for a warrior.


I haven't noticed "Ghost" hit from previously having Precision before it was removed from the tree; I had it before 3.0.2, but I might have re-specced once between then and Wrath, plus I'm a single data point.


Our new tanking rotation is really tight -- I feel like I spend too much time watching the GCD. Does anyone have any suggestions for an addon which will let me track the GCD without having to look at my keyboard? I'm also getting the hang of weaving in e.g. Divine Plea and possibly Cleanse into my rotation, usually replacing Consecration.

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