I just tested this with Seal of Righteousness.
572.73 571.291
578.25 576.811
580.733 579.294

each difference is 1.439
I have 140 haste which is 4.27% according to the armory tooltip

4.27% haste puts the gcd at 1.438573, which rounds nicely to 1.439. Maybe later I'll find some haste gear and see if behaves all the way down to 1 sec (not that I have that much haste gear).

In hindsight, we can save .5 sec on the avenging wrath, then are limited on the final spell by the cooldown of CS, as well as the GCD. That's not much time to get through the lag, and I think I'm generally at 7-8 powers used per wings. So it seems theoretically possible, but not plausible.

The reason I asked was I am looking for the maximum theoretical additional damage from popping wings. It looks like 7 white hits (more may be possible, less is likely), 3 CS, 2DS, 2 Judge, 15 tics of Consecrate, exorcism and holy wrath. Given various variances for gear and procs, it's like 10-15k extra damage for me.

How does the Righteous Vengeance dot interact with wings? Crits under wings are 20% bigger, so the dot is bigger, but do the dots also tick for more? Does the damage change if wings goes up or down during the duration?

I'll test with Vengeance+Wings etc when I get a chance tonight or tomorrow evening and report back on that.
I've been curious about that myself and SoC with Wings with the addition of spell power to the SoC formula.
Maybe someone will answer before then.

Wings and RV doesn't double dip, if that is what you are thinking. The DoT is independent on Wings, it only depends on debuffs on the target (like 13% more magic damage) and adding up to being 40% of the crit damage of Judgment and Divine Storm.


SoC has always scaled with spell power, the patch change is just a tooltip correction (which can only be from a client patch).

Just did a bit of testing on this - Judgements, CS, and DS are all 1.5s (with 6.37% haste gear equipped, so no effect from haste there), various things that clearly count as spells like blessings, seals, Divine Plea, etc came back at 1.41 (i haven't done the math, but that seems about right), and interestingly, Avenging Wrath comes up at precisely 1s, regardless of how much haste i had equipped.

Do heals sparked by Judgement of Light give Spiritual Attunement mana (if the judging paladin isn't the one in question of course).

No, they do not.

Yes - 60% damage reduction as long as the tank (or whoever) is within the 30 yard range of divine guardian.

I Was wondering if anyone worked the numbers for the librams to see if the (crusader strike) one or the (venture co. divine storm + crit) was more effective for overall raid dps

There was somone saying (I forget where) that they were multiplicative. Ie, 0.7 * 0.7 = 0.49 damage taken. Has anyone tested it?

Ooo, good point. I thought I read that with warrior (or perhaps paladin) shield wall, that it could mitigate 100% damage but I have not had a chance to test it myself...I'll see if I can work out something when I get home.

CS Libram (from Naxx 25) will give more dps than the Venture Co. one.


I am pretty sure the BoSac and Guardian stack by addition, however an easy way to test is do the Bubble + BoSac, then have the tank use Shield Wall. If addition, it would be 0 damage, if something else he would still take damage.

Hi, would it be wise to use HoSac on a tank during patchwerk 25 man? (Probably not a hateful tank) I was wondering if it would be a better option than jumping into the slime to lower your HP...

Neither one of those is a good idea. As long as you don't outaggro (both) Hateful tanks, you won't get hit by Hateful Strike. Even if not, if you outaggro one Hateful tank and the other's HP is low enough that you have more, even at full life, the Hateful would kill the tank. You're a lot easier to keep going without than a Hateful tank.

To answer the direct question, though, Hand of Sacrifice will hit you with 30% of either constant 10k and 5k hits or almost-constant close-to-30k hits. Not a very good idea.

I was just more worried about my HP getting higher than a tank... but should be OK since i get alot of recoild dmg from SoB

Another question is... how are you guys pulling in over 4k DPS on patchwerk?!

I can't seem to do alot of DPS on single targets and i'm usually beaten by DKs and hunters..... i'm using FCFS roation of course and have aLL my cooldowns on all the time but i can't seem to get even CLOSE to 4k DPS on 10 man patchwerk (I think i hit... 3.2k?!)

Regarding hitting 4k dps, it sounds like you aren't getting many support buffs in your 10-man. The biggest buff is a Shaman, another big one is Sunder Armor from a Warrior.

What totems from a shaman? Windfury, BL (i don't really see much of a dmg increase from a BL to be honest..) and...?

I'm not sure if SoE stacks with might but.

BL is 30% haste, so you get more Seals hits and white attacks. It is very noticeable damage increase. Also WF totem can give 20% more haste.

BL is really good if you time it with Wings.

They changed it a while back to lower GCD on some (all?) abilities, making it even better.

This will be a cross-post in most of the class-specific subforums, sorry if it's wrong place to ask, but didn't find better.

I'm planning to organize pugs for 25-man raids (OS, VoA and possibly Nax) on regular basis and I would like to know stats of your friendly next door Paladin (dps and healer) that can be useful in a raid. I don't want to be elitist, so let's say the person has already started doing heroics and some 10-man raids, but doesn't have the best gear he can get from it per slot. What stats should I expect from such Paladin?

While not the answer you're looking for, you could also have the people who want to join link Champion of the Frozen Wastes - Achievement - World of Warcraft .

I wouldn't really know about stats, I started doing raids in my t6/sunwell gear instantly. I had around 1.5k spellpower, 15k mana (buffed) and 20-25% crit in that gear I think.

Does anyone here know if the right click for the Mark of Norgannon stacks with haste potions?

It would stack with all haste potions. However, I wouldn't recommend using Mark, unless you really had nothing better.


Also, Bloodlust only reduces the GCD on spells, like Seals, Cons, and the undead stuff.