Not explicitly paladin releated, but since you didn't pick this up from previous posts:

HP has nothing to do with eating Hatefuls. It's entirely aggro based - stay lower than the hateful tank and it's not a problem. If you're running into aggro issues at 3.2k, you have serious issues. Standing in the Slime is a good way to lower your DPS, but won't stop you from eating Hatefuls if you're #2 on threat.

Can anyone confirm this?

Read the Naxxramas thread on these very forums.

How does a Ret paladin picks their weapon? If this was discuss before, apologise because i couldn't find information.

Hmm, will do, thanks.
Didn't notice before "public discussion" thread included raid info.

It's both with 25-man Patchwerk - #2 and #3 on aggro are valid targets, and whichever of them has the higher HP gets hit. If your melee are getting hit by Hatefuls, then one of your Hateful tanks is doing it wrong.

After this recent patch I was under the impression that our vengeance would stack to 5. I didn't see this in the patch notes however. I did notice in the talent tree it says vengeance stacks to 5. In nax tonight it would stop at 3. Did they plan on changing it to 5 in the ptr but changed their mind at the last second and forgot to change the talent tooltip?

Sort of, Ghostcrawler decided to revert the change about a week ago, but it seems forgot to tell the talent tooltip people.


To the comment above this, BoH, Jawbone, and Crypt's are the best 2Hs no matter what. You want the slowest weapons (BoH is an expectation since it has so much dps).

How much DPS is the 4pc set bonus worth about? I have valorous legs/chest and heroe's shoulder/gauntlets. I also have Zeliek's gauntlets. Fully raidbuffed rawr says Zeliek's gauntlets are worth about 26 (dps? not sure exactly what that number represents when it lists items on the right w/ the blue sideways bar graphs) more than my heroe's gauntlets. Should I keep heroe's for the setbonus or drop it for zeliek's.

3% of your damage, so I am assuming around 4500 for that gear level or 135 dps. So go for the set bonus.

Also, the number in rawr represents the dps the item gives you.

Ah ok, I actually get about 5000+ dps on patchwerk but I figured the setbonus was worth more. Do you have any gearing suggestions? Is it worth it to try to keep the setbonus or if I happen to find another upgrade to replace any of my other tier pieces so I can throw in zeliek's? Or would it be best to just try and upgrade my hero's to valorous asap?

RAWR related question: how much lower then your RAWR predicted DPS do you usually run? I'm only asking because it shows me numbers an order of magnitude higher than what I've achieved at best and was wondering whether it was a) because I'd borked a setting or b) because it's assuming a perfect FCFS rotation with no movement and no latency... if b) could anyone give rough % below expected they are managing at best (i.e. on a patchwerk for example?)

I have had show about 10% higher than Patch actual number.

Make sure the buffs are correct (don't enter some you don't have) and that the boss armor is correct (I normally have it at 13,500, no idea of the correct amount).

With the stam weapon enchant having been removed, what are you prot pallies rolling nowadays? Titanium weapon chain for the hit? Or are we still stuck with BC's 20 strength? With Berserking reduced to only -5% armor, is that feasible for threat generation? (5% of my 25kish being a whole 1.25k armor). Maybe even Lifeward..? I would almost prefer they put a stam enchant in because the rest of these seem terribly mediocre at best.

Edit: Ugh, sorry... double post.

This is purely anecdotal, but the "new" standard appears to be +26 AGI to the tanking weapon. That's what I have on my Red Sword and it seems like many other paladins and warriors on my server have that as well. I wouldn't look down on anyone who took the +20 STR from BC still; however I believe that the +26 AGI is a better buy right now since the +50 AP enchant has zero utility as a tank.

I use Accuracy.

If I wasn't specced into PoJ, I would be using Titanium Weapon Chain.

How does parrying / being parried affect us in a raid situation? The main tank of my guild, when I asked him why he hates parry so much, went on a 2 minute tirade about how when he parries, it actually - instead of the intended effect of making him double attack - makes the boss swing faster. Is this actually the case? I can't imagine this could possibly be true.

Being parried, and parrying are two different things. From a dps standpoint, you will never parry anything, and you should not get parried either since you attack from behind.

When a parry happens, whomever did the parrying gets a reduction in their swing timer. If the boss happens to parry, it means it attacks faster, thus causing more potential damage to the tank, thus its bad.

Parry should be a non-issue for dps.

Edit: Parrying as a tank is not really a bad thing per se, it makes your next swing faster which can mean more threat (ontop of avoiding the attack damage), but since it increases your attack speed, some feel it has a downside in that it can make you get parried more as a corollary from more attacks per second.

Edit: Nevermind, beaten to it.

Does anyone know what the damage formulas are for Retribution Paladin attacks? I'm trying to make a spreadsheet to calculate my theoretical DPS and evaluate which gear is the the best for me, but without the correct formulas it's hopeless. I tried using the ones on Thottbot.com, but they do not seem to be correct:

Seal of Command: 45% WPN + 10.35% SP
Judgement of Command: 24% WPN + 16% AP + 25% SP
Seal of the Martyr: 27% WPN
Judgement of the Martyr: 36% WPN + 16% AP + 25% SP
Consecration: 904 + 4% AP + 4% SP

Even after factoring in talents and glyphs and such, they're all too low(50-250% difference), specifically Consecration. The formula that Thottbot gives for Consecration only returns a result of around ~1500 with raid buffs, when it's not hard to do 3500+ with self buffs. If anyone knows the correct damage formulas, or if there's something major I'm missing, it would be a big help.

Consecration specifically takes 4% AP/SP per tick, not per cast. Don't forget the effects of CoE and other raid debuffs.