The pacify effect is not an aggro drop. That is the melee attack prevention effect of the Hand of Protection. Caster mobs will still cast at you as normal.

When I tested it with a friend, it definitely dropped aggro against a caster mob.

However, it may vary from mob to mob, since I only tested it on one particular mob (a murloc caster, iirc).

Edit: Note that Deterrence - Spell - World of Warcraft has the same aura effect, and deterrence also works on spells. So unless deterrence'd hunters can tank caster mobs while being immune, I don't get what could be going on.

I believe skinning affects both melee crit and spell crit, so it's decent for both. I don't think the heal from herbalism increases with spellpower.

The "pacify" effect prevents you from attacking while you're using Deterrence or protected by a Hand of Protection.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. I still have to see if it drops aggro against caster mobs like it does against physical dps. I did test this a while ago and thought it did, though now I'm getting conflicting information.

The crit from skinning is generic crit rating so it works for both spells and melee. The heal from herbing is not affected by spellpower at all, it's just a flat heal, but it's a free heal in arena. No mana cost, no cast bar, need a heal while spell locked there ya go. Mining is also a decent choice for a gathering profession from a pvp stand point, as you get a free 50 stam.

BS and JC are only the best professions to take via a min/max raid standpoint. If you aren't interested in / required to min/max (and in the current raid enviornment I can't see any guild forcing that atm) they really aren't worth it if you don't have another char with max mining / alot of gold to supply the professions.

Basically what I'm saying here is no profession is required anymore. Pick what you like or what you want to do and have it it.

Thanks all who replied. Smafdi based on what you said I just want it for pure PVP no raid stuff, so your saying it's more worth gathering professions? Also, whats better the 2000 life heal or the 50 stamina? I think skinning should be a must am I right on that logic if I am to stick with professions that gather?

Herbalism is 3000 healing over time, but requires you to click the button, while mining is 50 stamina at all times. Skinning is 32 crit rating at all times.

If I had use two gathering, I would use mine/skin, since those bonuses are passive.

What some people do is level up double gathering, then drop one or both once they have the gold to buy the mats for the better production professions.

What you could do is save the mats from mining, then once you have a lot of ore level Blacksmith or Jewelcrafting, dropping either skinning or mining (I would drop skinning).

I'm pretty sure iLotP has always triggered SA (first noticed it in Kara). Anyways, it triggers SA on Live right now.



I don't know any Blood DKs, so it'd be nice if someone else could double check if Blood Aura triggers SA or not.


Sorry, I know this is an old topic, but haven't had a chance to upload the image until now. It's always good to know how the mechanics of the class work. = )

In terms of potions to use for Retribution DPS;

Would the best potion to use be Potion of Speed? Or possibly Wild Magic?

Insane Strength > Speed > Wild Magic

I have a question about healing on phase 2 malygos.
Basically we always keep losing people to the barrages, even when everyone is properly bubbled.
Sometimes people will get targeted by ~3 at once, and get gibbed before i can react (or before my current HL finishes casting, for that matter)

There is also a bug where sometimes barrages hit for full damage, even if you are clearly under bubble. That's 18k on a single hit. Taking one of these just before the deep breath is another instant death.

Is there any way to tell who is getting barraged?
Also does anyone has a general paladin tactic for phase 2, which gave good results?

If you want to go 2x gathering professions then I would go skinning and mining. There are other things to consider for pure pvp professions, if it's not just arena play you're going for pvp wise then eng is a good choice too, you get rocket boots for that quick burst of speed, don't forget grenades too. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can use the eng grenades in arena, or at least I personally haven't come across an engineer in my 2's games. Leatherworking is an ok choice for the fur linings you can get, 90stam to bracers is nothing to snicker at.

I'm not really going to tell you to pick X professions, they are now more than ever a personal choice. Each profession brings something unique to your char so take a look at what they offer and what you'd like to take.

That isn't a bug, it is an issue with lag between the server being slow to know you are inside the bubble, which reduces the hits by 50%.

You could target the guys in the air to know who is targeted. Your best bet it is use Shock often on P2, especially when running between bubbles.


About the question about unhittable asked before, the site maintankadin.com has an advanced forums, there you can find a /script that will tell you if you are unhittable (remember to use Holy Shield first).

/script dr=function(x)return 1/(1/16+0.9560/x)end;DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Need 102.4 combat table coverage. Currently at: "..string.format("%.2f", GetDodgeChance()+GetBlockChance()+GetParryChance()+5+dr(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SK ILL)/122.962)))

If one were to remove Consecration from the DPS rotation (thinking PvP post Exorcism change), what would be worth more DPS, point-for-point, Two-Hand Weapon Specialization or Sanctified Seals?

Two-Hand spec is more damage over time, however Seals is 1% melee and spell crit (Exorcism is spell crit based). I would personally pick 2H spec.

I think you need to expand on your question, but I'll try and give my understanding by dropping a few examples...

Example 1:

Starting mana pool of 10000. Assuming no mana regeneration (only getting returns from Illumination), a Holy Light that costs 500 mana, and a 10% holy spell crit rate.

10000 / 500 = 20 casts of Holy light which should mean 2 of the casts would have crited meaning (2 * 500) * .6 = 600 mana pool remaining. The paladin only has enough mana to cast one additional Holy Light which is unlikely to crit, and even if it did would only be a return of 300 mana. Including the 100 mana left over this would be insufficient to cast Holy Light again.

Total possible mana returned via Illumination: 600 (assuming 2 total crits)

Example 2:

Same starting mana and Holy Light costs. Though this time we up the crit rate on holy spells to 20%.

Like before 10000 / 500 = 20 casts of Holy Light. But this time there are 4 that have crited. (4 * 500) * .6 = 1200 mana pool remaining. The remaining mana pool allows for two additional Holy Lights. Again, it's unlikely that both would crit @ 20%, but assuming one did there would be a 300 mana return to the pool and with the 200 left over the total would be 500 giving enough for another Holy Light.

Total possible mana returned via Illumination: 1500 (assuming 5 total crits)

Example 3:

Same rules as before, but 40% crit rate.

10000 / 50 = 20 casts which should mean 8 crits. (8 * 500) * .6 = 2400.

2400 mana means 4 more holy lights. At 40% it's likely 2 of them will crit resulting in an additional 600 mana returning to the remain 400 mana pool to total back to a 1000 mana; another two Holy Lights one of which would likely crit.

Total possible mana returned via Illumination: 3300 (assuming 11 total crits)

The Point

You will notice that every time I double the crit rate the mana returned by Illumination more than doubles. This is the geometric effect described in the Holy Paladin guide and the extension of the mana pool they are talking about. Additionally this is why Holy Paladins prize Int so much. Pushing up your Int scales up two factors in the above equation. Your starting mana AND your crit chance. Not only improving your chances of a return with Illumination but also giving more opportunities to cast to get a return from Illumination. You now understand the glory that is Paladin healing efficiency.

I hope I was fairly clear but if not feel free to keep asking questions. Also, I welcome corrections to my logic if there are any problems.

Please delete, accidental multipost from MySQL error.

Please delete, accidental multipost from MySQL error.

Ah, now that makes better sense. I could somewhat understand the 'snowball effect' that it caused, but didn't completely grasp it. Thank you good sir.

A shorter way to do that same math is to treat Illumination as a % reduction in mana cost equal to 60% of your spell crit.

ie:

crit	cost reduction	%boost	#casts	effective mana
0%	0%	100%	20	10k
10%	6%	106.3%	21.2	10.6k
20%	12%	113.6%	22.7	11.4K
40%	24%	131.6%	29	13.2k
100%	60%	250%	50	25k

If you purely spam a single spell, there is a fixed crit:MP5 ratio, at least averaged over a large enough sample. Crit scales with mana spend though, so the ratio will move if you vary heal frequency or spell selection, with crit being relatively stronger in scenarios that are more mana draining.

I suspect you're looking at effective mana and relating it incorrectly to time-to-oom (something I've been doing for a while).

Effective mana is "how much mana do I have to spend over 5 minutes", higher effective mana means you can afford to be more HL-happy, low effective mana means you have to rely on flash/other healers. Crit's effective mana scaling is better than linear, which mp5's isn't, since as you increase your regen you increase the mana you spend and hence the return from crit, but you've fixed time, so you've fixed return from mp5.

Time-to-oom is "how long can I heal like this before I run out of mana". This is where crit and mp5 have a fixed ratio, since you've chosen to fix mana spend, and hence the expected mana return per 1% crit (0.6% of mana spend).

Personally, I prefer to use time-to-oom as a measure, even if the scaling is kinda whacky. The rationale being, damage comes at a certain rate, therefore healing should come at roughly the same rate, anything over that rate isn't achieving anything. There's a perfectly solid argument for Effective mana though - a successful takedown is never going to last longer than some duration, I want to be able to do as much effective healing as possible in that time.