Paladin: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 41

lowsanity · 01/28/09, 10:38 AM

What is the best weapon(PvP and PvE) that RET palas who are lv 70 and only have up to burning crusade have access right now? All arena season 2 stuff are removed from the game, and getting people to do kill'jaeden or any 25 man is almost impossible on ravencrest. I'm currently using this: [Granite Maul of the Beast] and i don't exactly know what to look for... Whenever i ask, i get stupid answers like "get wotlk lol" "bc is waste, just get wotlk", but people fail to understand that i can't afford it now, so any help with this question is more than welcome.

edit: i have enchant and herbalism as skills, can't afford to roll on blacksmith.

Luthi · 01/28/09, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jaydin

First point was already mentioned, but yes - JoL heals *no longer* generate threat - this was relatively well known entering 3.0.8 (to the person asking "where" it was listed, it was there...I don't know if it was documented in the "official" notes, but it was made known by blues and to the tankadin community). Second point - I just spent about 20 minutes looking through our WWS of Sarth+3 drake attempts...there were *no* SA mana gains attributed to JoL heals. there were 5 paladins, 2 Ret paladins, and myself prot...one ret paladin had about 8 million healing from JoL heals (a lot of attempts >_<), and after literally browsing the log file this is a typical entry:

01:36'53.203 Taloothra gains 159 health from Taloothra Blood Aura.
01:36'53.203 Taloothra gains 575 health from Orbtiz Judgement of Light.
01:36'53.203 Taloothra gains 182 health from Taloothra Blood Aura.
01:36'53.407 Taloothra gains 665 health from Uzumati Wild Growth.
01:36'53.532 Taloothra gains 88 Mana from Judgement of Wisdom.
01:36'53.532 Taloothra Seal of Blood hits Taloothra for 170 Holy.
01:36'53.532 Taloothra gains 88 Mana from Judgement of Wisdom.
01:36'53.532 Taloothra Seal of Blood hits Taloothra for 73 Holy.
01:36'53.594 Taloothra gains 67 Mana from Spiritual Attunement.

The SA mana gain is *only* registered from wild growth - blood aura and JoL (note, the other ret paladin is casting it...it counts as *his* heal) do *not* count for SA mana return. I believe this is still working with the mechanic that it is a self-heal, rather than a *cast* heal, despite the new ownership. The same seems to still stand for Earth Shield and other "self heal" mechanic spells.

Please note this is not the only example, it just provided a nice entry with all 3 types of heals with one SA mana gain. WWS for reference

edit: to address Blöd - As I understand it, Judgement has always had a chance to miss ...its not a bug if you miss it especially as holy...that is why you need "+ hit" as part of that talent...you're attempted a ranged attack on a boss mob, 8% miss chance. Also, it's why Icewalker is a good holy boot enchant.

I saw a post in another thread, perhaps not on these forums where a screenshot was included showing a spiritual attunement mana gain from earth shield, and I have been operating under the pretense that it does restore mana. I'll do some testing tonight, as I usually do a few heroics every day with a particular resto shaman.

Edit: Also, a question. On the previous page it was mentioned that judgement of light no longer creates threat. Is it the heal or the actual casting of judgement on a target that no longer creates threat?

Darios · 01/28/09, 12:52 PM

the heal. Since the judgement does damage it's causes threat.

henragar · 01/28/09, 1:08 PM

Originally Posted by lowsanity

What is the best weapon(PvP and PvE) that RET palas who are lv 70 and only have up to burning crusade have access right now? All arena season 2 stuff are removed from the game, and getting people to do kill'jaeden or any 25 man is almost impossible on ravencrest. I'm currently using this: [Granite Maul of the Beast] and i don't exactly know what to look for... Whenever i ask, i get stupid answers like "get wotlk lol" "bc is waste, just get wotlk", but people fail to understand that i can't afford it now, so any help with this question is more than welcome.

edit: i have enchant and herbalism as skills, can't afford to roll on blacksmith.

Lionheart Executioner is a good choice if you are willing to put in the time to become a Swordsmith. But it's really the only great two hander available that isn't a drop.

Lionheart Executioner

Unfortunately, pretty much all of the good drops come out of 25 mans or 10 mans. If you can get 10 people to go to Kara you could get Gorehowl, which is decent.

Gorehowl

Hammer of the Naaru is what I used for a long time, which drops of HKM in Gruuls.

Hammer of the Naaru

Jaydin · 01/28/09, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Luthi

I saw a post in another thread, perhaps not on these forums where a screenshot was included showing a spiritual attunement mana gain from earth shield, and I have been operating under the pretense that it does restore mana. I'll do some testing tonight, as I usually do a few heroics every day with a particular resto shaman.

Edit: Also, a question. On the previous page it was mentioned that judgement of light no longer creates threat. Is it the heal or the actual casting of judgement on a target that no longer creates threat?

I checked that WWS additionally for evidence for ES healing triggering SA...it DOES trigger SA. I'm loading up WWS again to double check (and I'll post here with another snippet)

edit: WWS snippets
01:36'18.625 Noserino Earth Shield heals Jaydin for 2059.
01:36'18.641 Jaydin gains 16 health from Jaydin Blood Aura.
01:36'18.813 Jaydin gains 1502 health from Elars Renew. (831 Overheal)
01:36'19.032 Jaydin gains 67 Mana from Spiritual Attunement.
01:36'19.032 Jaydin gains 206 Mana from Spiritual Attunement.

01:36'23.032 Elars Prayer of Mending heals Jaydin for 4091.
01:36'23.032 Noserino Earth Shield heals Jaydin for 2058. (416 Overheal)
01:36'23.032 Jaydin gains 15 health from Jaydin Blood Aura. (15 Overheal)
01:36'23.469 Jaydin gains 409 Mana from Spiritual Attunement.
01:36'23.469 Jaydin gains 164 Mana from Spiritual Attunement.

Oh crap my bad...apparently I missed that earlier. PoM and ES both give SA mana...however JoL and Blood Aura still do not. (I think I screwed up the ES estimate earlier because I was watching the SA of the ret pally, not myself >_<) I edited my post to portray the correct info.

edit: further testing shows LotP does indeed proc SA...thanks to Fiola

Merovengian · 01/28/09, 2:51 PM

That is nice empirical evidence to support the long held theories of what triggers SA. The general rule being: Any heal cast by the player onto himself, or as a result of a buff triggered heal (IE, Blood Aura, JoL, Imp LotP) do not cause mana returns. Conversely, any direct non-character cast healing ability, active or passive- that does not overheal should trigger mana return. To include Earthshield, Prayer of Mending, et al.

Russta · 01/28/09, 6:21 PM

Originally Posted by Blöd

Since the 3.0.8 patch, i noticed the return of the judgement bug.
It can miss again (holy spec) at the cost of another GCD and a 8-sec delay to maintain JotP.

I didn't find many reports of it neither some blue comment, anyone has more infos ?

Judgement of Wisdom appears to be stacking again too. We brought a few Paladin alts into an Archavon after the nights raid and I was noticing insane JoW procs. I looked at debuffs and asked the Paladins who all said they were using it.

HamSlammer · 01/29/09, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Merovengian

That is nice empirical evidence to support the long held theories of what triggers SA. The general rule being: Any heal cast by the player onto himself, or as a result of a buff triggered heal (IE, Blood Aura, JoL, Imp LotP) do not cause mana returns. Conversely, any direct non-character cast healing ability, active or passive- that does not overheal should trigger mana return. To include Earthshield, Prayer of Mending, et al.

Interestingly enough, Beacon heals trigger SA even if it's the Paladin's own Beacon.

Jaydin · 01/29/09, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by HamSlammer

Interestingly enough, Beacon heals trigger SA even if it's the Paladin's own Beacon.

Do you have a combat log snippet of this (the latter part) occurring? As far as I know, self-beacon'd heals do *not* trigger SA mana returns, as the beacon still counts as the caster's own spell which doesn't return mana. Beacon'd heals on *other* paladins do indeed result SA mana returns, as it is incoming healing from another source. I'll back some of this up with WWS when it stops acting up (editing this post per usual).

To summarize what I've experienced:
Holy paladin puts beacon on Pally A, heals X (within beacon range): X is healed, Pally A is healed through Beacon, Pally A benefits from SA.
Holy paladin puts beacon on self, heals X (within beacon range): X is healed, self is healed through Beacon, self does not benefit from SA.

Sansei · 01/30/09, 7:22 AM

SA discussion was carried out on these very forums.
http://elitistjerks.com/1017507-post388.html is a link to my question about beaconing self, and under that post are some answers given. The discussion yielded that, healing effects from your own Divine Storm, your own JoL, your own Beacon do not proc SA to you (since they are attributed to you)

I'd like to see some proof for or against, as we all took members' posts for granted; we were never shown a combat log snippet proving either opinion. I also wonder if healing totems, shadow priest's Vampiric Embrace talent, etc proc SA or not...

Merovengian · 01/30/09, 12:47 PM

I may be wrong about this but i was under the impression, for quite a while mind you, that Shadow Priest VE heals have always given SA returns. That was a core mechanic in BC 25mans pre-sunwell, to stack Holy pallies and a tankadin in group with a spriest so the tank had less mana concerns and the healadins never went oom (even though that wasnt rly a huge problem to start with).

My personal BC raid experience was with stacking bloodlusts rather than mana regen slots. Feel free to beat me over the head with the correction stick.

• frmorrison · 01/30/09, 1:59 PM

Shadow Priest VE heals will give SA if the heal actually healed you (not overheal), same situation with healing stream totem. In early BC VE heals gave SA even at 100% health, but that was quickly fixed.

Back in BC SPriests were given to dps casters and/or Paladins, but never a tank (since tanks don't need mana and VE is largely overheal). Shamans were stacked because Bloodlust didn't give a debuff back then.

Marama · 01/31/09, 8:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mountie

Stop trying to hit cap, it's hurting you more than it's helping you.

Ok, if I equip the best belt (Flame-bathed) and best weapon (Wraithspear), I gain +38 AP and +.57 Crit over equipping the lesser belt (Girdle of the Ascended Phantom), but lose 1.11% usable hit (to cap w/draenei.) I've tried that setup, as well as the other two, and frankly don't see any practical gain by forgoing the hit. That's only 2.7 DPS from AP, and a little over half a percent crit given up by not missing.

Athéná · 01/31/09, 8:45 PM

I have been trying for the past couple of days to write a macro to link Divine Favor to my Holy Shock casts and Divine Illumination to my Holy Light casts. I know a working macro is easy to write but what I am trying to do is use Grid and Cligue. Every time I use my linked macro or one I write into Clique it always casts the heal on me and not my intended target.

drake_rocket · 02/01/09, 3:52 AM

My dearest apologies for bothering the excellent minds of this forum with a very simple question.

Is it, generally speaking, wise/acceptable to place beacon of light upon a main tank (if you are a designated main tank healer) and, in lieu of focusing on them, heal the DPSers and just have your beacon heal the tank? Or does this produce problems?

It seems to me, from what I gather, that this is a terrible idea as your heals may well not help the tank at all as a DPSer might not be able to absorb the full level of your heal, either by not being sufficiently damaged or by being healed a second before by a chain heal or some such. And beacon of light delivers only actual healing done, yes?

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this no doubt very simple and obvious question from someone who knows little about pallyhealing but is seeking to understand it better.