Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Paladins

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05/31/09, 12:42 AM   #1226
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
When you want to compare item X to item Y, just download Rawr or a spreadsheet.

As a general rule, you want to use a slow weapon unless the newer weapon has lot of extra dps. Cryptfiend is better, however if Relentless had 226 dps (which it never will), then using a faster weapon would be okay.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Old 05/31/09, 12:45 AM   #1227
MoonZapdos
Glass Joe
 
MoonZapdos's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Darkmoon Faire (EU)
Tankadin Question:

What would suit better a Retribution Paladin for off-tanking when necessary? [Cleaver of the Unforgiving] with [Thick Lionseye] or [Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade]?

Thanks in advance.

Offline
Old 05/31/09, 2:37 AM   #1228
Jebraltar
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Staghelm
Is that a joke?

The axe gives better mitigation, the sword gives better threat, neither is even close to the sword out of heroic Utgarde Pinnacle. Hell, neither is better than a level 80 blue. Or close to level 80 blues.

Offline
Old 05/31/09, 5:39 AM   #1229
Bubbletrouble
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Chromaggus (EU)
Originally Posted by Mewee View Post
Quick question:

[Cryptfiend's Bite] versus [Relentless Edge]

The Ulduar spear has better stats and more dps, but the it's much faster. However I'm really doubting now if speed really matters THAT much, since faster weapons means more SoB procs.

Any advice? I'd love to get my hands on weaps like Rune Edge, Aesir's Edge or Earthshaper but right now those are the weaps I got.

Well Cryptfriend's Bite has more haste anyway so the difference in actual attack speed would be slightly lower anyway I should think, definitely go for Relentless Edge as it has more damage, more crit and attack power.

Offline
Old 05/31/09, 10:42 AM   #1230
MoonZapdos
Glass Joe
 
MoonZapdos's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Darkmoon Faire (EU)
Originally Posted by Jebraltar View Post
Is that a joke?

The axe gives better mitigation, the sword gives better threat, neither is even close to the sword out of heroic Utgarde Pinnacle. Hell, neither is better than a level 80 blue. Or close to level 80 blues.
My Paladin is level 71.

Offline
Old 05/31/09, 12:00 PM   #1231
Jebraltar
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Staghelm
There's no reason to min/max tanking leveling instances. Especially the WotLK ones.

Offline
Old 05/31/09, 12:29 PM   #1232
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by MoonZapdos View Post
Tankadin Question:

What would suit better a Retribution Paladin for off-tanking when necessary? [Cleaver of the Unforgiving] with [Thick Lionseye] or [Dragonscale-Encrusted Longblade]?

Thanks in advance.
Threat doesn't matter until dps get geared up in Naxx (which will not happen for a while for you). Go for def cap, then mitigation.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Old 05/31/09, 1:22 PM   #1233
vorda
Bald Bull
 
vorda's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by Bubbletrouble View Post
Well Cryptfriend's Bite has more haste anyway so the difference in actual attack speed would be slightly lower anyway I should think, definitely go for Relentless Edge as it has more damage, more crit and attack power.
Did you bother running this through Rawr and actually reading up on how base weapon damage (and thus weapon speed) affects us?
Using the rawr best in slot template (where you're hit/exp capped from gear), cryptfiend's bite wins with 72.x dps over relentless edge.

Please don't give wrong advice (and do read up on base weapon damage and how important it is).

Offline
Old 05/31/09, 8:34 PM   #1234
Mewee
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Thanks guys, I have some problem running Rawr on my computer, it makes a critical error when I try to open the exe file.

However I just got it to work on my laptop and found out that Cryptfiend's bite is indeed slightly better than Relentless Edge. Ah well, at least it vendors for 25g

Now what I wouldn't do to get an Aesir's, Earthshaper or Voldrethar.... *drool*. Each of those would be such a MASSIVE upgrade to my current cryptfiends.

Offline
Old 06/01/09, 11:47 AM   #1235
Moony
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Hello everyone. Recently i've been less active so my gear didnt catch up from naax25 and atm i'm geting mostly scraps from other melees in ulduar, wich is OK since i'm now pretty casual.


The result has been that i am still with Death's Bite from kelthuzad 10men and way overcapped (350 atm).


As the guild progresses way faster in gear than me, i am being left behind in dps badly (never top 10 now while in naax25 i was normaly 5-6th).


Good news is that it seems i am next in line for a 2H weapon either worldcarver or Rune Edge. I know worldcarver is definately better for my purposes but i realy can't afford to lose more time with my "awesome" Naax10 weapon, so i'll go with whatever drops first.


Acording to rawr i'll have an increase of over 200 dps with an upgrade from death's bite. Is this purely fictitional theoretical numbers or should i expect a massive increase such as this? In other therms is the upgrade realy noticeable or do you think i should save up DKP for perhaps 2-3 other gear upgrades ? (weapons cost much more in DKP), what should be my priority atm?


Thanks in advance.

Offline
Old 06/01/09, 2:11 PM   #1236
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Even if a weapon only gives a 200 dps increase, it will be more than a piece of armor (maybe 20-60 dps per piece). For all melee dps classes, the weapon is the most important part.

If you are really concerned about dkp, you can try to get 1850 arena rating to get the weapon (about equal to Rune Edge).

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Old 06/02/09, 7:41 AM   #1237
Rabaen
Glass Joe
 
Rabaen
Draenei Paladin
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
The bonus damage from spell power on the Paladin ability Retribution Aura has been reduced by half. The threat generated by that damage has been doubled per point of damage to keep the threat generation about equal to before.
Is this anything to be concerned about? Judging by the threat increase Ret Aura has lost more than half of its Sp co-efficient damage.

I know the damage is reasonably small but any damage reduction is something to look at.

Source

Offline
Old 06/02/09, 10:00 AM   #1238
Moony
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
Even if a weapon only gives a 200 dps increase, it will be more than a piece of armor (maybe 20-60 dps per piece). For all melee dps classes, the weapon is the most important part.

If you are really concerned about dkp, you can try to get 1850 arena rating to get the weapon (about equal to Rune Edge).
Thanks for answering. Been folowing this foruns for a while and i realy like your posts.



Unfortunately i couldnt pvp to save my life, so that option is realy out of the picture for me.


Most of the melee in my guild already has the pvp weapons and i'm thankfull for that, but i do feel there should be at least 1 more ulduar 25 (non-hard) 2H weapon with STR, since so many specs out there would need on them.

DKs Dps
Dks Tanking
Fury wars
Arms wars
Ret palas

In my guild there's a lot of good pvpers geting pvp weapons, but if there werent i'm sure there would be a lot of people waiting for a long time on this upgrade, especialy since 2 of the 2handed weapons dont have any STR at all (rune edge and vezax polearm) and most ppl seem to pass on them because its not "optimal".

Offline
Old 06/02/09, 1:47 PM   #1239
Brockolious
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Zul'Jin
If Blizzard scales back +Intellect or buffs +MP5 for healadins in the near-future, are any healadins saving MP5-heavy gear just in case?

I ask only because I've read a few Ghostcrawler posts that hinted Blizzard wasn' thrilled about healadins stacking huge +intellect since all the patches.

I'm starting my healadin up from 70 to 80 after a six-month break. A lot has changed. God Bless EJ!

Personally, I think it'd be bonkers if an intellect-nerf hit healies, especially with the stat-allocation on Ulduar I'm seeing.

Offline
Old 06/02/09, 5:22 PM   #1240
Ranjurm
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Arathor
Originally Posted by Moony View Post
Most of the melee in my guild already has the pvp weapons and i'm thankfull for that, but i do feel there should be at least 1 more ulduar 25 (non-hard) 2H weapon with STR, since so many specs out there would need on them.
You also have to understand that having fewer str weapons and more AP+agility weapons allows more people to gear up. While AP and agility are not ideal all 2h classes can make use of them (especially ret paladins) and since many of the AP + agil weapons are slow it makes them even better. It's a side effect of gear homogenization. More upgrades through sheer ilvl for many rather than few upgrades through ideal itemization for a few.

Offline
Old 06/02/09, 6:59 PM   #1241
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Brockolious View Post
If Blizzard scales back +Intellect or buffs +MP5 for healadins in the near-future, are any healadins saving MP5-heavy gear just in case?
I feel it is a good okay to pick up the mp5 gear, just in case. The alternative is a shard, so not much of a loss picking them up (other than bank space).

I know a lot of Warriors/Rogues/Druid feel back about passing on Grim Toll (back then ArP was weak).

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Old 06/04/09, 12:13 PM   #1242
Spotnick
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade
I don't have the patience to scan the 50 pages of this thread to see if this has been answered but.

Since I'm new to ret, I'd love to know one thing.. what's a good usage of Sacred Shield... i never saw really the utility of that but it seems every thread in there people are using it.. you're casting it on yourself or on the tank?!

Always looked to me as something a holy pally would use due to the flash of light buff.

Canada Offline
Old 06/04/09, 12:20 PM   #1243
Spotnick
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Brockolious View Post
If Blizzard scales back +Intellect or buffs +MP5 for healadins in the near-future, are any healadins saving MP5-heavy gear just in case?

I ask only because I've read a few Ghostcrawler posts that hinted Blizzard wasn' thrilled about healadins stacking huge +intellect since all the patches.

I'm starting my healadin up from 70 to 80 after a six-month break. A lot has changed. God Bless EJ!

Personally, I think it'd be bonkers if an intellect-nerf hit healies, especially with the stat-allocation on Ulduar I'm seeing.
They will probably do the same they did for prot and change the stats of your current gear to swap spell power for mp5.

Just like they did with prot pallies for spell power vs strenght.

That is for plate, then for neck pieces and cloaks, maybe you should save some.

Canada Offline
Old 06/04/09, 2:05 PM   #1244
Corazu
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
I don't have the patience to scan the 50 pages of this thread to see if this has been answered but.

Since I'm new to ret, I'd love to know one thing.. what's a good usage of Sacred Shield... i never saw really the utility of that but it seems every thread in there people are using it.. you're casting it on yourself or on the tank?!

Always looked to me as something a holy pally would use due to the flash of light buff.
That's what the search function is for. There was a brief discussion on the merits of casting it on the tank, though generally your holy pally healers should have the covered (if you have them). I generally just use it on myself to mitigate SoB damage and increase any AoW procs I use on myself. With all the AoE damage it actually mitigates a lot of that as well.

Offline
Old 06/04/09, 7:25 PM   #1245
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
Since I'm new to ret, I'd love to know one thing.. what's a good usage of Sacred Shield... i never saw really the utility of that but it seems every thread in there people are using it.. you're casting it on yourself or on the tank?!

Always looked to me as something a holy pally would use due to the flash of light buff.
If you feel you need the survivablity of SS on yourself, then do that. However, once you feel comfortable with that, cast SS on the tank instead. SS stacks in a way (each shield can proc by itself), but if you had 4 SS on one target then maybe the 3rd and 4th are wasted. When I raid, only one other person casts SS on the tank, so two is always useful.

Most Holy Pallies do not cast Flash (that may change in 3.2), so the buff to Flash is mostly worthless in PvE.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Old 06/05/09, 11:43 AM   #1246
Kryptaaern
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Balnazzar (EU)
Simple question:

Is the 4set tier8 bonus worth getting for a Holy Paladin?

Last edited by Kryptaaern : 06/05/09 at 2:45 PM.

Offline
Old 06/05/09, 12:04 PM   #1247
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Kryptaaern View Post
Does anyone have any suggestions about BiS gear for a Holy Paladin? And is the 4set tier8 bonus worth getting?
Healing gearing is far more subjective than DPS. There is no guaranteed overall BiS. You need to decide on what you need to focus. Mana pool/regen issues - grab more Int and Crit and gem for Int. Plenty of mana, but your targets die - go for Spellpower and Haste and gem for Haste.

Spamming HL (which even Blizzard admits is basically all you're expected to do) should prevent your targets from dying. So mostly don't worry about spellpower, it'll be present on the gear you're picking up - focus on the secondary stats. Haste increases throughput (more spells cast), Crit is a sort of hybrid (more crit heals for greater healing, it also has Illumination regen), and MP5 (or better yet, just Int) will allow you to cast more spells on a long fight.

Once you're comfortable with your mana on every fight I'd personally recommend more Haste. Be warned, this sort of double-dips on extra mana usage. You're trading potential mana regen stats for the ability to cast more spells in the same period of time. So increased mana usage + decreased regen. You'll have to find your personal sweet spot.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

Offline
Old 06/05/09, 7:25 PM   #1248
Amnek
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightninghoof
Question:
Rawr has the [Furious Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets] ranked fairly low. I would think with the buff to CS in 3.1, they would be one of the top gloves. Is Rawr not considering the 5% boost to CS? If not, how high would you rate the gloves?

Offline
Old 06/06/09, 1:13 AM   #1249
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Amnek View Post
Question:
Rawr has the [Furious Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets] ranked fairly low. I would think with the buff to CS in 3.1, they would be one of the top gloves. Is Rawr not considering the 5% boost to CS? If not, how high would you rate the gloves?
The high amount of Stamina and Resil used in the item budget is not overcome by 5% bigger CS hits. Rawr does account for the extra CS damage. That said, you can still made a solid set with those gloves, just it is 50-100 dps less than a set with the T8 gloves.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

United States Offline
Old 06/06/09, 6:26 AM   #1250
Ranjurm
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Arathor
Originally Posted by Kryptaaern View Post
Simple question:

Is the 4set tier8 bonus worth getting for a Holy Paladin?
Depends on your healing style. In a 53/18/0 build it certainly is. In a ret subspec build the answer is it depends. If you get it play around with it and see if you like it.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Paladins

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Death Knight: Simple Questions/Simple Answers Boethius Death Knights 2880 12/10/10 10:50 PM