Paladin: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 52

• frmorrison · 03/04/09, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Malloron

The guy in question is using a [Wraith Spear], 3082 AP, 33.77% crit, 348 haste (10.61%), 359 hit rating (Has hit heavy stuff like [Spiked Titansteel Helm] and [Grim Toll], which he perhaps should replace with something else?), and 10 expertise. He has 2/5 Valorous bonus.

Worrying about stats (other than hit rating) is not that helpful. Just wear the highest item level dps plate is the best way to go, and use lots of Strength gems whenever possible.

The hit cap is 8% which is around 260, so he wasting a lot of item points. Swapping out Grim Toll will fix most of that.

Blutelf · 03/04/09, 12:37 PM

It is really easy to find that player's armory, so you should have given it to us in the first place.

The gear is alright for someone who has not been very long in Naxxramas. The player needs to regem all to +strength and exchange Grim Toll. 11% hit as an Alliance player is way too much, 7% is the ideal value here. For the two blue gems, Sovereign Twilight Opal is the better choice. AP on bracers is a better enchant, even for PVP.

Your WWS logs are also accessible, so again just post them here next time.

The player is using Seal of Command instead of Seal of Martyr. Using Martyr is a necessity. This will most likely be up to 500 extra DPS raidbuffed. I can't easily see why he would do really low damage, but do tell him to use a STR elixir instead of Guru's.

Ask him about his PVE rotation, and whether he prioritises Judgement over CS over Consecration over DS over Exorcism and Holy Wrath. He obviously can do 7k dmg at Thaddius and 4k at Patch even with SoC, so maybe he is just not fully concentrated in your raids? I believe I saw some logs where the number of his total Crusader Strikes was interestingly low, but Judgement and DS + Consecration seem to be just fine.

Hope that helped a bit.

Merovengian · 03/04/09, 2:42 PM

Basically, you need to tell him to come here and read how to play Ret in WotLK, cuz as it stands, he's stuck in BC.

Cardano · 03/04/09, 3:24 PM

My intention now that I finally have Argent Exalted and got my Helm of Purified Thoughts was to put another Enchanted Tear in it to activate Insightful Earthsiege Diamond.
That would free me up to +INT all my other gems and seemed like a halfway decent choice for my placeholder Titansteel helm.
Dazzling Forest Emerald + Luminous Monarch Topaz
8int / 3Mp5 + 9sp / 8int = 16INT / 9SP / 3Mp5
VS
Enchanted Tear + Brilliant Autumn's Glow
6int / 6sta + 16int = 22INT / 6sta
Just Seems to me that the 6 int and 6 sta are worth more than 9sp and 3mp5
Anyone care to explain why that might not be right?
[The real reason I am asking is cause I need to use my first tear for Wispcloak that I need BADLY ]

• frmorrison · 03/04/09, 4:24 PM

I would never use an Enchanted Tear (6 to all stats) for a Holy Pally, since only 6 int is useful. The 8 int/3mp5 gem (for blue) and the 8 int/9 sp (as yellow) is what I use (in blue and yellow sockets) to turn on my Meta.

• Mex · 03/04/09, 4:57 PM

To be honest, I'd be very tempted to go with the 9 SP and 3 MP5. 6 int will be sliiiiightly more MP5 if you're using DP every cooldown (around 0.8 MP5 more), and will give a tiny amount of crit, making it superior in terms of pure effective mana pool. However if you're using DP less frequently than every 80-90 seconds, or don't have replenishment, the 3 MP5 will surpass it in terms of regen.

Unless you feel that the stamina is necessary, I'd stick with the basic gems and use the tear for your cloak. Even if you feel that the tear's superior, I'd be hesitant to use it in something that wasn't BiS, but obviously for you that will vary based on your budget.

Atrus · 03/05/09, 12:39 AM

When taking a look at many armory profiles for pve ret, i notice a distinct aversion towards the Vindication talent. Is there something about that mechanic that i'm missing?

kharen · 03/05/09, 1:22 AM

Originally Posted by Atrus

When taking a look at many armory profiles for pve ret, i notice a distinct aversion towards the Vindication talent. Is there something about that mechanic that i'm missing?

Simple enough - it doesn't work on anything interesting. It's a pretty much purely a pvp talent.

ElginRoko · 03/05/09, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mex

To be honest, I'd be very tempted to go with the 9 SP and 3 MP5. 6 int will be sliiiiightly more MP5 if you're using DP every cooldown (around 0.8 MP5 more), and will give a tiny amount of crit, making it superior in terms of pure effective mana pool. However if you're using DP less frequently than every 80-90 seconds, or don't have replenishment, the 3 MP5 will surpass it in terms of regen.

Unless you feel that the stamina is necessary, I'd stick with the basic gems and use the tear for your cloak. Even if you feel that the tear's superior, I'd be hesitant to use it in something that wasn't BiS, but obviously for you that will vary based on your budget.

Also, having 2 non-yellow gems gives you a better shot at being able to maybe pick up a socket bonus for once

NinjaSquirrel · 03/05/09, 3:06 PM

My prot pally is 79. At 80, this is my plan to gear her. Although I get to the defense cap, I only have 211 hit in my plan and my cap is 263 (as draenei). She does not have any emblems of heroism yet.

Question: Should I switch out some items to gain the additional 52 hit, gem for hit, or should I just leave my hit at that level and gem for stam, strength, dodge, block, parry?

A primary concern of warlocks is to reach the hit cap prior to raiding. Is this a concern for prot paladins as well or only defense?

Helm: Tempered Titansteel Helm + Eternal Earthsiege Diamond
Neck: Titanium Earthguard Chain
Shoulder: Iron Dwarf Smith Pauldrons
Back: Cloak of Peaceful Resolutions
Chest: Sun-Emblazoned Chestplate
Bracer: Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets
Weapon: Red Sword of Courage (+28 hit weapon chain)
Shield: Titansteel Shield Wall
Libram: Venture Co. Libram of Protection
Hands: Refined Ore Gloves (+20 hit enchant)
Belt: Ancient Aligned Girdle
Legs: Bolstered Legplates
Boots: Sabatons of Draconic Vigor
Ring1: Titanium Earthguard Ring
Ring2: Unsmashable Heavy Band
Trinket1: Figurine - Monarch Crab
Trinket2: Figurine - Ruby Hare

Kallell · 03/05/09, 4:15 PM

I'm about 99% sure a tank should never gem or enchant for hit. I haven't been prot since BC though, so I'll leave the confirmation of the other 1% to an expert.

NinjaSquirrel · 03/05/09, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kallell

I'm about 99% sure a tank should never gem or enchant for hit. I haven't been prot since BC though, so I'll leave the confirmation of the other 1% to an expert.

I based my hit enchant selection on The Protection Paladin Field Manual (WoW-3.0/WotLK)

If you have not already, obtain the following enchants:
A +12 defense rating enchant to cloak.
A +22 defense rating enchant to chest.
A +40 stamina enchant to bracers.
A +20 hit rating enchant to gloves
A +22 stamina enchant to boots.
A [Titanium Weapon Chain] to weapon.

The field manual also lists the hit gems as a "good" gem.

I would like to know if it was standard practice for a prot paladin to get hit-capped prior to raiding or if typically it has a lower priority than dodge, block, strength, etc.

Darios · 03/05/09, 5:13 PM

Is it needed to get the melee hit cap of 263 hit rating? or is it enough to get around 200?

There has been some talk amongst the rets on my realm that around 200 is enough and that Strenght becomes better nonetheless at that point.

Soralin · 03/05/09, 5:35 PM

When you are a new level 80 tank your main focus should be on survivability. Paladins have a high inherant threat anyway - once you are at better levels of HP and Avoidance (And Block Value) you can start looking at threat stats (hit).

My normal tank set carries about 120-200 hit rating and I'm tanking 25man raids without any issues at all.

• Mex · 03/05/09, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by kharen

Simple enough - it doesn't work on anything interesting. It's a pretty much purely a pvp talent.

There are one or two instances where it does work, the adds (fire eles and whelps) on Sarth + drakes being the most notable. I throw one left-over point in it on the spec I use on that fight as prot, but I honestly can't attest to what sort of damage / health reduction the mobs suffer from it. I would suspect that it's relatively minor.

During TBC, many ret pallies put at least one point in it, because even though it didn't work on bosses, the attempted application of it (which came up as immune) could proc JoW for some extra mana.

Regarding hit as prot, it can be quite useful, but as a fresh 80 your number one priority should always always be survivability. Use 26 agi, 20 str, or mongoose instead of titanium weapon chain, and use Armsman (~0.2% parry), 20 agi, or armour / stamina kits on your gloves. Once you've reached uncrittable and the block cap, consider hit a little more, but first up you should be making sure you don't die.

The reasoning behind this is the basic priority system for tanking, don't wipe the raid > stay alive > max TPS. Apart from that though, hit rating is less relevant to our TPS than it is for other tanks. ShoR, seals/autoattacks, judgements and consecrate are all affected by +hit, although the TPS loss from missing an autoattack is very, very minor unless it happens frequently enough that your SoV stack falls off. Last time I checked, HotR couldn't miss, although I have a feeling that was due to ghost-hit from precision. I would suspect that it most likely can miss, although some confirmation would be nice. I haven't specced prot in a while. In any event, holy shield and spiritual attunement mana gains (or Divine Plea) aren't affected by +hit, which slightly lowers its appeal compared to with other tanks. Expertise is much worse, and has a very minimal effect on our TPS.

There is some benefit to being hitcapped though, as it frees up a glyph slot. Currently not especially useful with the very narrow selection of prot glyphs available, but come 3.1 there will be a plethora of interesting options, and being able to get rid of the glyph of righteous defense will constitute a fairly significant TPS upgrade in and of itself.