I know in the Ret thread it says this:

Other than the data mining how is this confirmed?

I don't have access to the game but I figured that if it would trigger a heal from the JoL debuff that this was one way to confirm the above. Not to mention it uses the melee hit table. As I said though I can't access the game right now and after reviewing WWS I noticed some casters were procing the JoL heal. I am also under the assumption that regardless of haste the GCD after a Judgement is always 1.5. Then there is the fact that if you are silenced you can't Judge.

The consensus seems to be that Judgements are a modified physical attack not a spell. Does this perhaps mean that Judgement along with our other melee specials would proc AoW? If so that would mean AoW would be up most of the fight. (I personally don't think it will though.)

From my understanding, Judgements are melee attacks with a slightly longer range than a normal melee attack which have Parry and Dodge disabled via Judgement Anti-Parry/Dodge Passive - Spell - World of Warcraft. I always assumed that the reason you could not use Judgement while silenced was due to the magical damage component of it. Maybe I need some additional understanding of this though.

Oh, and the reason casters now benefit from the heal of Judgement of Light is due to the fact that Blizzard modified the effect to proc off all attacks. Unknown yet whether Judgement will be able to proc AoW in the next patch.

My guess is that AoW is meant to trigger off of white damage crits only.

CS and DS are "melee attacks" - why would the patch notes bother noting such a change if all "melee attacks" can trigger AoW as usual?

AoW currently procs off judgement as well. It's not 100% clear whether they mean white swings only, or white + CS + DS, but it's a fair bet to assume that it's white + CS + DS since otherwise they would have presumably said autoattacks, like with Combat Potency - Spell - World of Warcraft or Necrosis - Spell - World of Warcraft both of which seem to suggest that when Blizzard means white swings, they'll use the term autoattack.

Long time reader, first time poster here. I was wondering if the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance will become a very good Ret DPS glyph with the removal of Seal of Blood/Martyr? I am suppose it may be too early to tell until we find out the difference in DPS between SoV and the revised Seal of Command, but I would think the 10 expertise would be a pretty nice boost in DPS for anyone under the cap.

just wondering what are my basic opening movies as a ret pally while leveling
also which seal to use and wat to judge with

thanks

edit: i had been prot from lvl 1-69 and had no idea how the ret system/moves worked

sorry for the misunderstanding

2k! When B casts 4k heal on himself, in practice, B's beacon will cast 4k healing on A. (beacon target A will receive 4k raw healing) Since A has a healing reduction debuff, B will get 4k healed, and A will get 2k healed through beacon.

For the same reason, I'd expect that if B had dampen magic, and A had amplify magic.
Let's assume both has enough health deficit so nothing is overhealing. A is beacon target, B is holy pala. B casts 4k healing on himself, gets 3750 effective healing due to dampen magic. A receives an 3750 healing through beacon, and applying amplify magic, he gets 4k healed. I haven't tested this myself, but working principle of beacon should yield this result.

If it's not wasted Expertise (i.e. you're at/near cap from gear) preliminary examination is that this glyph could be very good. However, until PTR is active and we can test mechanics we cannot be 100% certain.

Read the first post in the Ret thread. Yes, normally that's all about endgame raiding, but it happens to be true for leveling as well - the "rotation" (or lack, thereof) does not change. If you're too low level to have SoB, spec SoC until then.

True until 3.2:
How much effective healing did your first target take? Overhealing does not count.
This same value will hit your Beacon target. The Beacon heal is counted as a separate heal and can be modified as such.

Example:
Players 1 and 2 both have 20k Max HP. Currently both are hurt and only have 10k.
Player 1 has Mortal Strike, Player 2 is your Beacon target.
You heal Player 1 - 10k Holy Light, but he's only healed for 5k (Mortal Strike).
Player 2 gains 5k.

Worse Example:
Players 1 and 2 both have 20k Max HP. Currently both are hurt and only have 10k.
Both have Mortal Strike, Player 2 is your Beacon target.
You heal Player 1 - 10k Holy Light, but he's only healed for 5k (Mortal Strike).
Player 2 gains 2.5k (Mortal Strike round two).

In 3.2 (currently per prelim patch notes) overheal will be good.
Example:
Players 1 and 2 both have 20k Max HP.
Player 1 is fine, Player 2 is hurt at 10k.
Heal Player 1 for 10k - all overheal.
3.1 (Now): Nothing happens to Player 2.
3.2: Player 2 heals for 10k back up to full.

Conversely, when you heal a pet that gets 50% more heals, your BoL target gets healed for that amount. I'm pretty sure this will get changed, it would be an insane advantage.

I'm hoping the damage loss by a hunter bringing the tanking pet will offset the +50% to beacon healing.

I could see using that tactic on Deconstructor or Kolagarn but any other fights where the trade off might be worth it?

Pet has +50% healing buff. So you get 150% healing when you heal the pet. 95% of the time this will be overheal. That's fine in 3.2 - overheal works.

Remember that Beacon transfers the heal to a single target - probably your MT. Therefore healing the pet is like +50% healing only for you on the MT. I suppose this could let you spam FoL and keep the MT up? Maybe? So much of HL is overheal anyway, that'd be pretty pointless. Unless you're trying to be an AOE-melee healer with glyph splash heal - which is sorta silly.

The question is - is it worth having a hunter with a tank pet for one healer (or all Holy Paladins if you run multiple and they make the change to allow multiple Beacon on same target) in the raid to heal the MT for 50% more?

Probably not. The main benefit of Beacon is to heal other targets who need it - potentially an Offtank - while still giving the MT some love.

It would also single handedly negate the Divine Plea healing reduction. Then, the tradeoff would be indeed no raid healing, but not losing any HPS on your main target.

It wouldn't actually, though it'd come close, the effects are multiplicative with one another, not additive. Half of 150% healing would be 75% healing. Nevertheless something to consider when using Divine Plea however.

Well, out of curiousity.

I'm undercap in Expertise, and I know the stat weight and everything, but I was wondering...

I'm using Fish Feasts and Flasks of Endless Rage, would I get more benefit from using Expertise food or expertise elixirs until I can finally get Worldcarver that should solve my expertise crave?

Or should I stick to the attack power buffs.

Expertise and str are relatively the same dps boost when raid buffed (kings) so we can equate Flask of Endtless rage to 60 str which far out values 45 expertise from the elixir. So the flask is clearly better.

Next we have 80 AP and 46 SP. That's worth 32 str and 46 SP. The question becomes which is better? 8 expertise or 46 SP. Rawr tells me that it takes ~ 10 SP to give the dps boost that one str gives so 40 expertise is worth more than 80 AP and 46 SP meaning that changing your food is a dps boost. By the same token, you should be using + 40 str food while at or near the expertise cap as 100 AP is worth more dps than 80 AP and 46 SP.

Okay, I've been reading these threads for ages.. so i do know that strength is, of course, always better then AP on a ilvl point basis... However, If i'm dealing with upgrades to ilvl, what would be the equivilant AP to overtake Str?

For example, this is how i see it.
My current piece has 50 strength.. BOK gives *1.1 and Divine Strength gives *1.15... so would that mean that
50*1.1*1.15*2(the ap mod for strength) = 126.5 AP be "equal" worth? or is there something i am missing in this calculation?

This is, of course, presuming that the other stats of the two items are perfectly identical.

Thanks I love everything you guys do... partly because it makes me a better player, but also because it's earned me the title of "encyclopedia" in my guild... even though i say every time that it's your guys work!

This is correct.

Whoever told you the best spec is 0/51/20 was plain wrong. The spec you linked now is pretty bad as well. You're missing judgements of the just and PoJ. You're also missing Divine Guardian (which imo, you should have now SS's stack +-) and spent points in Reckoning, which is horrible.

The spec I run with during most Ulduar hard modes is this one: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Talents you can change are imp HoJ (almost every trash/adds are stunnable in ulduar, I simply love the talent) and imp might (our holy palas are all prot subspec and we have no reliable ret pala).
I suppose if you know you'll always have a tank DK or prot warrior on your mob, you can drop the points from JoJ as well, but I really wouldn't do it. Alot of times you're the only tank on a mob and judgement is nice front loaded tps and a very valuable debuff.


ps: due to the bad state of paladin tanks on ulduar hard modes, I actually find myself speccing to ret and leaving the tanking to druids/DKs/warriors. But I did maintank nearly every hard mode there is in the past.

edit: drop the SA glyph and get 2/2 in SA. Makes no sense at all glyphing for something you don't even want to spend 1 extra talent point in.

Does Exorcism on the PTR reset our swing timer if it's made instant via AoW?

Or does it only reset with the /stopcasting macro?

I know it will depend on your gear but I'm curious about something, the value of the meta gems after the buff of BV in the next patch.

This is my Alt Paladin so he doesn't have access to great gear but he manages: The World of Warcraft Armory

In around 1400 BV should the Meta that gives Defense and 5% Block be better than the one with Stamina and Armor? I know they have the same budget but after the buff to BV maybe we have a clear winner?

I was able to get a white swing 1 second after an AoW Exorcism, so it doesn't look like the swing timer is reset. The swing timer does seem to reset if you actually cast it for 1.5 seconds.


My test method was to swing at a dummy, count for 3 seconds (using a slow 2h, obviously), cast Exo with/without AoW, and count how long until the next swing occurs. (Also double checked combat log time stamps)

Did you use a /stopcasting macro? Of course starting a cast time spell will rest the swing timer, but the more important question is if the /stopcasting nerf went to the PTR.

Not for that test. What exactly is the /stopcasting macro, and what's the big deal? I looked up the blue post GC was responding to and used this one:

/cast Exorcism
/stopcasting


This did not reset the swing timer when used with or without AoW.