Hit provides a slight increase to mana regen until you reach the melee hit cap, due to the interaction of judgement and SoW.
I'm not sure what else to really say? The presence of a (largely) superfluous stat doesn't have any bearing on whether it's an upgrade or not.
A latent appliance fetishist is someone who refuses to admit to his or herself that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of machines.
- L. Ron Hoover
The problem is they're both itemised so badly. Should i get the head and lose about 300 hp + only a little avoidance. Should i get the leg's and gain about 300-400 hp, but lose a lot of avoidance? Is the 4pc bonus even worth getting?
The problem is they're both itemised so badly. Should i get the head and lose about 300 hp + only a little avoidance. Should i get the leg's and gain about 300-400 hp, but lose a lot of avoidance? Is the 4pc bonus even worth getting?
I'd think the 4pc bonus speaks for itself...
You're better off getting the head as far as survival/mitigation goes.
You're better off getting the head as far as survival/mitigation goes.
The Prot 4 piece is the best set bonus I have seen on any Pally set. More Shield Walls makes you nearly as good as pre 3.1 DK. The T9 Helm (assuming you didn't need the block rating on the T8 helm) is by far better than the Legs. The new Prot module in Rawr 2.2.21 is pretty awesome now (works with AD + decent avoidance calcs).
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Ok guys I know you are getting tired of the gearing questions, but RAWR is not modelling [Victor's Call] properly, even in the latest version. (For me it is just modelling the expertise making it worse than blue trinkets.)
With 2pcT9, i know the value of crit becomes very high, which is why I was using [Wrathstone].
Now my expertise is a little low(14 with SoV glyphed) and was wondering if the heroic version of [Victor's Call] is better when I make use of all the expertise.
Rawr tells me that 1 point of expertise rating is worth 1.38 dps, and one point of crit is worth 1.25, witk my current gear and fully raid buffed off course.
On Use effects
This is where it gets a little fuzzy for me so I will put in what I can. Rawr puts one point of AP as 0.80 dps. [Wrathstone] is 856*0.80 = 684.8dps*(1.2(AW)/10(20 seconds/2minutes)) = 82.2 dps
Obviously this doesn't include heroism, TotT, haste pots or anything like that. I will be honest in saying that I am unable to do the math with including those.
This would mean that the [Victor's Call]'s proc has to provide me [(82.2+135)-114.54] or 102.66 DPS in order for it to beat wrathstone, which would be:
(102.66)*(10/1.2) = 855.5dps/0.80 = roughly 1070 AP.
I'm currently trying to figure out the spellpower coefficients for Flash of Light and Holy Light (to get the best possible calculation for LibHealComm-4.0) and would need some clarification.
The base spell coefficients for a Holy Paladin are <base cast time> / 3.5 * 1.25, right?
Because some sites are listing slightly different values.
And this coefficient then has to be multiplied with the spellpower to healing coefficient introduced in Patch 3.0, which is the same for all classes, right?
But what's the exact value of it? Most sites are writing 1.88 and that's also what the RestoShaman model of Rawr is using. But the Healadin model uses 66 / 35 and the HolyPriest model 855 / 455.
Are these values different because everyone uses the value that matches their own tests the best? Or is there any source for "the" real value?
The Prot 4 piece is the best set bonus I have seen on any Pally set. More Shield Walls makes you nearly as good as pre 3.1 DK. The T9 Helm (assuming you didn't need the block rating on the T8 helm) is by far better than the Legs. The new Prot module in Rawr 2.2.21 is pretty awesome now (works with AD + decent avoidance calcs).
If it wasn't clear, this is what I was saying. T9 4pc is tasty, and you should get the T9 helm over the legs.
If the prot module is in fact including AD, I can't tell the difference. It makes exactly the same recommendations as 2.2.19, and gives no greater weight to stamina than it ever did.
spellpower coefficients for Flash of Light and Holy Light
There'll be a lot of different information floating around. Discard anything pre-3.0, since coefficients then didn't have blessing of light baked in. The major discrepency comes from Healing Light, which is factored into some numbers and not into others. From memory, the numbers with healing light included that I've used are 1.885 for HL and 1.13 for FoL, and were taken from Endoscient's holy guide for WotLK.
A latent appliance fetishist is someone who refuses to admit to his or herself that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of machines.
- L. Ron Hoover
There'll be a lot of different information floating around. Discard anything pre-3.0, since coefficients then didn't have blessing of light baked in. The major discrepency comes from Healing Light, which is factored into some numbers and not into others. From memory, the numbers with healing light included that I've used are 1.885 for HL and 1.13 for FoL, and were taken from Endoscient's holy guide for WotLK.
Base FoL is 100%, upped to 112 with full points in healing light. Having imp devo or a tree around will multiply this by 1.06, resulting in 118.72. With full points in divinity, this should come to an effective 124.656.
Holy Light has a base of 166% in WotLK, upped to 185.92 with Healing Light. This goes up to just over 197% with Devo/tree, and with Divinity becomes 206.9%.
Holy Shock seems to have a base of 81% for healing... 90.72% with healing light, 96.16 with devo/tree, and finally 100.97 with divinity.
For kicks and giggles I've also calculated the SP we'd need for FoL to do equal or greater healing than HS is at 6823 spellpower, giving both 9290 healing. I'll do mana efficiency in a little bit.
Last edited by Jackinthegreen : 10/11/09 at 11:11 PM.
Greetings Elitist Jerks. First time poster. I apologize if this question has been asked before. I have a gear question and, since I'm not the best at math and deducing the exact potential of an item, I'd like to ask you guys for your opinion.
I'm running with the [Judgement Crown] and a 4 pc T9 bonus at the moment. I just recently received [Chestplate of the Frozen Lake]. My question is, is it worth replacing my 232 T9 chestpiece with the Frozen Lake chestpiece for the stat increases and lose my 4 pc set bonus? I do have the 232 T9 helm which would allow me to keep the 4 pc set bonus, but I'd be back in the same dilemma as I'd have to replace the 245 ony helm.
Is our 4 pc set bonus (increase the HoT effect from FoL on our SS by 100%) worth keeping when faced with upgrades that will break the set?
Thanks in advance for any and all help.
Edit: I just noticed the Frozen Lake item link is showing the 258 version. Not sure how to get it to show the 245 version, but that is the one I have.
There'll be a lot of different information floating around. Discard anything pre-3.0, since coefficients then didn't have blessing of light baked in. The major discrepency comes from Healing Light, which is factored into some numbers and not into others. From memory, the numbers with healing light included that I've used are 1.885 for HL and 1.13 for FoL, and were taken from Endoscient's holy guide for WotLK.
Endoscient's numbers are exaclty the same he uses for calculation in Rawr, that is:
<base cast time> / 3.5 * 1.25 * 66 / 35 * 1.12
If we don't include Healing Light there, it gives 1.6836 (reported as 1.66 by other sources) and 1.0166 (reported as 1.00 by other sources).
The weird thing is, I did some tests for LibHealComm-4.0 and the average healing done by 100 casts of each spell matches the formular <base cast time> / 3.5 * 1.25 * 1.88 * 1.12 the best (so using 1.88 instead of the more exact (is it really more exact?) 66 / 35). Could this be because of the relatively small sample size of only 100 casts?
Originally Posted by Jackinthegreen
Base FoL is 100%, upped to 112 with full points in healing light. Having imp devo or a tree around will multiply this by 1.06, resulting in 118.72. With full points in divinity, this should come to an effective 124.656.
Holy Light has a base of 166% in WotLK, upped to 185.92 with Healing Light. This goes up to just over 197% with Devo/tree, and with Divinity becomes 206.9%.
Where did you get the 100% and 166%? As I've written above, using Endoscient's formulars gives slightly different numbers.
Greetings Elitist Jerks. First time poster. I apologize if this question has been asked before. I have a gear question and, since I'm not the best at math and deducing the exact potential of an item, I'd like to ask you guys for your opinion.
I'm running with the [Judgement Crown] and a 4 pc T9 bonus at the moment. I just recently received [Chestplate of the Frozen Lake]. My question is, is it worth replacing my 232 T9 chestpiece with the Frozen Lake chestpiece for the stat increases and lose my 4 pc set bonus? I do have the 232 T9 helm which would allow me to keep the 4 pc set bonus, but I'd be back in the same dilemma as I'd have to replace the 245 ony helm.
Is our 4 pc set bonus (increase the HoT effect from FoL on our SS by 100%) worth keeping when faced with upgrades that will break the set?
Thanks in advance for any and all help.
Edit: I just noticed the Frozen Lake item link is showing the 258 version. Not sure how to get it to show the 245 version, but that is the one I have.
It really comes down to whether you are a HL pally (stacking INT) or a FoL pally (stacking SP) to determine whether the set bonus is worth anything. If you are going with the most popular method of gearing, which is stacking all INT and spamming HL as much as possible, the 4 piece bonus is almost completely useless. You actually lose HPS trying to keep up the FoL HOT (even with the set bonus doubling) and would be better off just continuing to cast HL if you're in a situation that demands heavy healing. Plus, with the set bonus so weak, any HPS you gain from it is probably offset or eliminated by the extra stats gained from using a 245 chest over a 232 chest.
Personally, as an INT stacker, I see little to no value in the T9 set bonuses and will just take the best itemized non set pieces I can get my hands on. If you exclude ilevel 258 pieces (a few slots only have tier drops in ilevel 258 items), only the tier gloves are in my opinion BiS. [Merlin's Robe] is actually the BiS 245 chest piece IMO, although it is cloth and very expensive to craft. The Frozen Lake chest is probably the next best item; you basically lose a gem socket from using that over Merlin's.
The weird thing is, I did some tests for LibHealComm-4.0 and the average healing done by 100 casts of each spell matches the formular <base cast time> / 3.5 * 1.25 * 1.88 * 1.12 the best (so using 1.88 instead of the more exact (is it really more exact?) 66 / 35). Could this be because of the relatively small sample size of only 100 casts?
The difference between 1.88 and 66/35 is very minimal (0.3% increase), and you're correct in that a sample size of 100 is too small to adequately highlight any difference.
I'm not sure where the 1.0 / 1.66 numbers come from. Wowwiki lists them as the coefficients as of 3.0.9, but doesn't provide any links to testing. Most of the other quotes I've seen citing 1.66 as a HL coefficient have simply referenced wowwiki.
A latent appliance fetishist is someone who refuses to admit to his or herself that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of machines.
- L. Ron Hoover
I'm not sure where the 1.0 / 1.66 numbers come from. Wowwiki lists them as the coefficients as of 3.0.9, but doesn't provide any links to testing. Most of the other quotes I've seen citing 1.66 as a HL coefficient have simply referenced wowwiki.
Yes, and these WowWiki values come from a Guide on Tankspot which originally contained other values, but was then updated to values coming from "perusing through wowhead and EJ suggests" (see this post).
So in my opinion, all this 100% and 166% sources are just rounded values based on some tests.
Maybe Endoscient could explain from where he got his formula?
I was the one that proposed the 66/35 value, you can see the discussion between Endo and myself Here. If you peruse it, you will see where the whole 100% v 101% came about. (It was caused by a common level 70 libram having an odd interaction, the real coef IS 101%)
Do you have a link to where they calculated the priest one?
I was the one that proposed the 66/35 value, you can see the discussion between Endo and myself Here. If you peruse it, you will see where the whole 100% v 101% came about. (It was caused by a common level 70 libram having an odd interaction, the real coef IS 101%)
Thanks for that link!
Do you have a link to where they calculated the priest one?
No link, I just saw it in the Rawr sourcecode. Maybe ask the developer.
Would this be the place (if there is such a place) that I could link some WoL reports to get the opinion of the Holy pally Community why it is the other holy pallies in my guild fall so far behind myself and the other healers. Myself and the healing officer have been discussing it and we have our theories...but I'd like to try to get a wider perspective on things if possible.
Would this be the place (if there is such a place) that I could link some WoL reports to get the opinion of the Holy pally Community why it is the other holy pallies in my guild fall so far behind myself and the other healers. Myself and the healing officer have been discussing it and we have our theories...but I'd like to try to get a wider perspective on things if possible.
Linking a WoL of a healer doesn't mean much if you don't know the assignment (like if one Pally is doing JoL and the other is doing JoW, there will be a huge healing difference) and gear. In this case, I suspect the under performing pally is not casting enough, maybe due to worrying about not having mana (ask for a innervate!) or watching TV.
Also healing style will make a difference, like is the guy spamming Flash while using Int gems or spamming HL while using sp gems.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
My holy pala has super crappy bracers and 4 crusader orbs. Should I craft Sunforged Bracers, or would cloth Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers give me more? Providing I dont care much about armor...
Hi there,
i got some questions regarding RAWR Optimizer and Effective Health for my Protection Paladin.
1: I read that Effective health is HP * Mitigation which means i first try to get my Avoidance+Block to 102,4% and then stack stamina. is this correct?
2: I tried to optimize my pally aiming for Effective health but i could not figure out what Optimizer setup i should use.
I used the "Health" optimizer and set %Avoidance to 102,4% also i set Defense to > 540.
I ended up having 30k health which could not be true because i was close to 102,4% before optimization.
What optimizer should i pick when aiming for Effective health and on which other things should i concentrate when optimizing with rawr?
Here's what I use (open for debate but certainly better than default): Set the boss unmitigated hits up to around 70,000. Use the Mitigation setting, but slide the second slider down to .6 (I also dial threat slider down to 0, but that will depend on how concerned you need to be about threat). This will at least get you close to a reasonable gearing strategy.
My holy pala has super crappy bracers and 4 crusader orbs. Should I craft Sunforged Bracers, or would cloth Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers give me more? Providing I dont care much about armor...
Right now, mp5>crit by a very large margin for holy paladins, so I would have [Sunforged Bracers] crafted. Alternately, you could go with [Black Chitin Bracers] if the pattern is more available or mats are significantly less expensive. I went with the mail ones (identical stats) simply because the plate pattern hasn't dropped and the mats cost 1500 G less on my server than the plate bracer mats.
Here's what I use (open for debate but certainly better than default): Set the boss unmitigated hits up to around 70,000. Use the Mitigation setting, but slide the second slider down to .6 (I also dial threat slider down to 0, but that will depend on how concerned you need to be about threat). This will at least get you close to a reasonable gearing strategy.
Thanks for your answer.
I optimized the way you described using "Calculation to Optimize: Mitigation Rating" and no other Values set in the Optimizer Window and end up having -5k health but my avoidance+block now says 100% and i got about 560 defense.
Looks strange to me or is loosing so many healthpoints better while being "unhittable".
10/08/09, 3:56 AM
Similar Threads
