The idea was that if I spam HL and know from experience that no one will die even if I use DP, how I can maximize longevity with 100% spam. This means that I would be using the cooldowns as soon as I can, but since blowing them all before the first cast doesn't get you the most out of them, I'm asking what order would be the best.
In that case, I believe you'd want to start with DP since the CD is the least significant or shortest and at start you can spam sparsely, hence using Met. Crystal or DI wouldn't have the most benefit. You can pop DP like 10-15 seconds into the fight and pretty much end with full mana like 30 seconds into the fight. Then you can pop your DI followed by Met. Crystal (no need to pop them simultaneously and lose a GCD) while waiting for next DP to be off CD. Then it will be FCFS and if you say nobody will die even if you're on DP, maybe best to use your AW with DP since if nobody's dying while you're in DP, it's pointless to boost your HL when you don't have healing reduction.
Popping DP early with sparse HL spam has an advantage. Since it's still too early for "most" fights to have AOE damage on the raid yet, your raid healers will be helping with tank healing a lot, and you won't need the crazy HPS until they're busy healing the raid and their help on your MT is hence at its minimum.
Hello, while my paladin is only 34 I noticed the word 'resist' poping up an awful lot while leveling. I looked at my recount and my retribution aura is sitting at a 34% resist rate(1100 resists and 2065 hits). Is there something with retribution aura that causes it to miss so much? I have 1% hit from my draenei aura, and another 2.2% hit from hit rating.
Hello, while my paladin is only 34 I noticed the word 'resist' poping up an awful lot while leveling. I looked at my recount and my retribution aura is sitting at a 34% resist rate(1100 resists and 2065 hits). Is there something with retribution aura that causes it to miss so much? I have 1% hit from my draenei aura, and another 2.2% hit from hit rating.
Those are partial resist + normal spell resists (Ret aura uses spell hit). Partial resists just happen ( they are different based on level of the targeted) and getting more spell hit will help your Ret aura.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I figured it out. Apparently ret aura's hit rate is not updated when you level with it on, so since I had left it on since I got it my resist rate on it was approaching 100%. Now that I switched from it to devo and back it's hitting every time.
Noticed something with Aura Mastery today, and I'm wondering if I'm remembering a former post incorrectly or if something else is happening. I was under the impression that when you use the spell it increases ALL auras currently active on the raid, but while using it it was only affecting the aura I personally had up (at least as far as the resistances showing up on my character sheet).
Am I remembering the talent incorrectly, as in imagining it was more beneficial than it really is? I still really like the talent, but obviously it will mean I'd need to pay more attention to what aura I have up on what fight.
I don't think that it ever affected all Auras. It's meant for the currently active Aura of the Player casting it.
You can even see spell effect differences. Using Aura Mastery with Concentration Aura will give the whole raid a white glowing effect for the full duration (PvP reason, enemy will see when you are immune to interrupts). Using it with any other Aura the effect is just shortly displayed on the casting Paladin.
Aura Mastery: Causes your Concentration Aura to make all affected targets immune to Silence and Interrupt effects and improve the effect of all other auras by 100%. Lasts 10 sec.
True. Only your aura affected by your AM, eventho the tooltip isn't exactly clear on the other types of auras. However it's logical for me, since it states that it only affects your Concentration Aura, so the same logic is expected at the other kind of auras too.
I was hoping I could get a little insight on a few things. I haven't had the chance to talk to our main holy paladin, but I was having a healing discussion in my guild and one of our other holy paladins (off spec holy, anyway), mentioned that any paladin that casts HL is a "failadin." That goes in contradiction to a lot that I have read, at least prior to 3.2(?). I know that a few things have changed, but I don't see how HL would still not be used, at the very least, in conjunction with other spells.
I'm pretty confident that both of these paladins are FoL spammers and I was curious as to what the community feels is the best holy paladin practice and possible pros and cons of the different styles.
I'm pretty confident that both of these paladins are FoL spammers and I was curious as to what the community feels is the best holy paladin practice and possible pros and cons of the different styles.
I suspect these FoL spammers have also convinced your healing leader they're best on the raid? Bacon the tank and raid heal with Flash? Some healers get as meter focused as DPS and it drives bad behaviour. Reducing overheal via FoL, often by sniping heals. Druid throws a HoT on a raider. In 3 seconds it will tick. And your paladin casts a FoL in that time, causing the HoT to be 100% overheal. You gained no extra healing, you've just wasted the Druid's mana and made them "look bad" on an overhealing meter. And discouraged them from throwing these HoTs, which would have ticked many more times and healed future damage that takes an entire new FoL from the paladin.
FoL spam was BC. Wrath is HL spam. The huge mana pool and regen sources (MP5, Illumination even post-nerf, Replenishment, and DP - throw them with a Resto Shaman for Mana Tide if needed) allow for long term HL spam.
Holy Paladins are phenomenal tank healers with HL and Beacon. Just toss some bacon on one tank and heal the other. Poof, Glyph of HL even heals the melee for free. With the amount of damage that tanks take on any given hit, FoL just doesn't cut it. Remember, Glyph of HL is a smart-heal - it picks those most needing the healing within its range.
FoL is for efficiency. Low overheal, low mana usage. For mana conservation. SS and FoL may work for a single Holy on some fights, such as Vezax. Holy Shock for movement or as an Oh Shit button, usually paired with a quick/instant Flash (IoL). HL is for real fights, because you have the mana pool and enough haste that it's rapid anyway (1.3-1.4 seconds in many cases).
Our Guild's Holy does 11k normal and 18k crits with HL, not counting bacon and Glyph. Compare that to a 4k FoL (7k crit). He's getting healing on his target, his bacon target, melee, and free JoL - he rocks meters. Spamming FoL I'm sure we'd lose tanks, have to reassign healers away from the raid, or have to bring an additional healer - but his overheal would be less on a meter!
Watch your paladin's mana and check a log later. I'm betting it barely moves with FoL spam and they're probably not using DP.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
The commonly accepted practice is for paladins to gear for all the intel they can get, bind every key to HL and faceroll.
There is a growing population of paladins that spec for all the SP they can get, they bind every key to FOL and faceroll also.
HL is typically the better way to go for a paladin in a progress raiding oriented guild that wants to focus on MT healing.
FOL builds have their uses (but there is/was a somewhat heated discussion about when and why it is "usefull"). I suggest you read the holy thread if you want to get more detail about it.
It ultimately depends what you want to do, if you want to be raiding the hardest available content, then you should focus on the HL style healing. If you're a casual raider, or focussing on heroics. Both will work to various degrees of satisfaction.
Remember, Glyph of HL is a smart-heal - it picks those most needing the healing within its range.
Are you sure GoHL is a smart heal effect?
I'm sure it used to be a random heal effect, and I can't remember seeing any patchnotes stating this got changed.
The healing effect from ret's DS is a smart heal, but afaik, the GoHL is a "any random people within range" type healing effect.
It may seem like a smart heal since it'll usually only be melee that's in range, and often it's also only the melee that's taking some extra damage from the boss.
I'm sure it used to be a random heal effect, and I can't remember seeing any patchnotes stating this got changed.
The healing effect from ret's DS is a smart heal, but afaik, the GoHL is a "any random people within range" type healing effect.
It may seem like a smart heal since it'll usually only be melee that's in range, and often it's also only the melee that's taking some extra damage from the boss.
You are correct, Glyph of HL just heals whomever is in range of the HL target. Divine Storm is the only Pally smart heal, however there is a lag before it heals so sometimes it heals/overheals the wrong person.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
That's a parse of last week's raid when we successfully downed Beasts for the first time. Reading that, it looks like she only used DP once and casts HL about half the amount of FoL. I'm pretty sure she has the gear to HL spam like crazy, but apparently she doesn't. I had never really looked at her spec or glyphs but when I armoried her earlier, she doesn't have GoHL. She seems to have spent/wasted it on Glyph of Salv. She is also our most geared healer, next would be our Disc priest. I think because our Resto Shaman has so much haste, he's sniping a lot of heals and I'm not sure how that is affecting the rest of the heals.
She's not BAD, I feel she actually does pretty well, but I don't know how much she would improve, if at all, by getting glyph and spamming HL (though I imagine she would). How does that parse look and what can she do to improve? I noticed she has an insane amount of overheal, but I think that's normal.
Lastly, we're doing Jaraxxus tonight, though I've heard it's an easier fight (esp in 25 compared to 10), are there any tips I can pass on to her?
You are correct, Glyph of HL just heals whomever is in range of the HL target. Divine Storm is the only Pally smart heal, however there is a lag before it heals so sometimes it heals/overheals the wrong person.
My understanding was it was smart heal. Obviously the range is short and it can only really reach tanks and melee. Since melee generally takes simultaneous damage (AOE) or is unhurt, it's probably difficult to truly test.
Divine Storm doesn't explicitly explain it's a smart heal, nor even does Chain Heal. It's possible that Glyph of Holy Light is, it's possible it is not. Not sure it's worth testing - it's free healing, which is always worthwhile.
@Guaguasi - if your healer is on MT duty, I've always been firmly of the opinion that overheal is good. It means they're anticipating damage that did not occur, rather than waiting for damage and trying to top off, which risks tank death from another blow during cast. So that's not a bad thing to see.
Resto Shaman chain-heal is remarkably useful, but a good Holy should stomp them on heals with Bacon, HL, and Glyph throwing out insane amounts of healing.
Here are my suggestions:
One thing I don't see in your log is Judgement of Light. It looks like your Ret is throwing this. Since there's no longer an advantage to Ret JoL (flat 2%, no AP scaling) I'd suggest you have your Ret use JoW (100% up-time for raid increases DPS of ranged - less time in Viper for you!) while your Holy uses JoL. It'll reduce the up-time on JoL a bit (20 sec duration, rejudge every minute for self-buffs), but the increased DPS from the rest of your raid may well be worth it.
Also suggest swap useless Salvation Glyph for Beacon of Light.
On Jaraxxus have her HL heal the MT tank and bacon the other. It'll reduce the healing required on the OT. You may also want her to call silence on vent, as 8 second school lockout is entire silence to a Paladin, other healers know to pick up the slack. Glyph of Holy Light also shares the love to melee who may get some infernal fire or similar, and are the only guarantees to be near any tank.
One warning - don't have her bacon a tank and heal Incinerate victim. Incinerate "eats" heals until it is pushed off. 0 healing duplicated to a tank is 0 - it's not effective or overheal, it's absorbed. And bacon is too expensive to throw on each victim and then heal a tank.
Good luck on Jaraxxus! I think he's a well-designed fight. Free gnome death is good, too.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
So, my guild is currently working on TOGC 25 Anub. This means that we have access to all of the Heroic loot, sans the tokens for the highest tier of gear. That being said, I am tring to decide on the effective value of the t9 4pc bonus.
I gain the imperative 2pc from gloves and shoulders, however, I am not sure which is better, getting two more trophy pieces to make the 4pc, or looking at the higher level gear in those slots (chest from Champs, pants from Valks, 75 emblem / Ony helm) which would give overall better stats and more gem sockets, but miss on the bonus.
Assuming I won't have the EPGP for the tokens when we kill Anub, is it higher DPS for the heroic non-set, or the normal 25-man tier for 4pc?
So, my guild is currently working on TOGC 25 Anub. This means that we have access to all of the Heroic loot, sans the tokens for the highest tier of gear. That being said, I am tring to decide on the effective value of the t9 4pc bonus.
I gain the imperative 2pc from gloves and shoulders, however, I am not sure which is better, getting two more trophy pieces to make the 4pc, or looking at the higher level gear in those slots (chest from Champs, pants from Valks, 75 emblem / Ony helm) which would give overall better stats and more gem sockets, but miss on the bonus.
Assuming I won't have the EPGP for the tokens when we kill Anub, is it higher DPS for the heroic non-set, or the normal 25-man tier for 4pc?
Thanks!
4 piece (5% crit to Judgement) is about 60-70 dps in my gear. You have to use Rawr to make these decisions, it has a useful optimize option in order to select the highest dps combination. I made a BiS thread, although you do need all those items listed to make it work.
Personally I use 4 piece with 258 leggings from Twins, however there are other combinations that work just as good.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
My understanding was it was smart heal. Obviously the range is short and it can only really reach tanks and melee. Since melee generally takes simultaneous damage (AOE) or is unhurt, it's probably difficult to truly test.
Testing if it's a smart heal or not is easy enough, it just requires the cooperation of a lot of people that won't get bored after 5 seconds.
Make a raid, fill it with all the people you can, the more the better.
Have them all bunch up close together
Have one person take off their gear, and put it back on. He'll now be at less than max HP.
Cast a HL on someone (not the person with lower HP).
If it's indeed a smart heal, it should consistently and always hit the person with less than max HP. If it's a random heal, he'll get hit with a chance of (5 / number_of_people_in_the_raid).
If you're holy for a raid, you can test this before a pull when everyone's more or less bunched at the pull spot anyway. unequip some gear, put it back on and cast some HL's and see if the effect hits you always.
I raid on my Holy priest because my guild asks me to, but I do our ten man heroics on my Holy paladin. I'm the healer who respecs to DPS for Anub, so I'd just like to doublecheck that my Seal usage is appropriate.
I start off with Seal of Corruption for the first dozen seconds or so, and then as I am assigned as one of two DPS to take care of the adds I switch to Seal of Command. I then keep Seal of Command up until P3 starts. Once the first two adds are down (the two that are out before P3 is triggered), I switch back to Seal of Corruption for the remainder of the fight, the P3 burn phase.
I don't play Ret very often and thus it is very possible that I am using a sub-optimal Seal at some point during this encounter. What do you think?
Dragonfin (Fish feast is like 5 dps less) and Haste Potion.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Dragonfin (Fish feast is like 5 dps less) and Haste Potion.
There's usually not much difference between the dragonfin and the feast, but it is worth noting that depending on your gear at the moment, they jump back and forth for the better overall buff. I've never noticed a difference of more than 10dps.
"The question is not how far we are going to take it... the question is, do you possess the constitution to go as far as needed?" - Il Duce
I am not a holy paladin, so I'm not 100% sure on this, but I am a healing officer and want to clear this up:
Roughly (as this is simple questions thread) how do the two healing metas compare : 25 SP 2% int vs 21 int restore mana.
Most paladins I would imagine have at least 2k intellect with raid buffs, so will the 2% int be enough to restore more mana via replenishment and divine plea than 5% chance of 600 mana? Assuming worst case scenario of chain casting for an extended period of time.
Roughly (as this is simple questions thread) how do the two healing metas compare : 25 SP 2% int vs 21 int restore mana.
Most paladins I would imagine have at least 2k intellect with raid buffs, so will the 2% int be enough to restore more mana via replenishment and divine plea than 5% chance of 600 mana? Assuming worst case scenario of chain casting for an extended period of time.
21 Int and restore mana is more overall regen, even with 2k int.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
10/26/09, 6:10 AM
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