Please indicate in which Grand Master Training Dummies have you "tested" this. From what I've personally checked there is no way to "position yourself behind the dummy so as to not hit the one next to it". SoC cleaves and DS hits occur regardless of where you stand.
In Stormwind (around 80,63 I think, going by wowhead). For the cleave my position doesnt matter but for DS it does. On this dummy I stand behind the dummy in the corner against the wall, as far away possible from the one next to it.
Originally Posted by chinoquezada
SoC is not superior to SoV single target, your results are skewed because you don't realize you are indeed cleaving with SoC.
I will check it again tonight. The cleave is visible on the target, I've looked out for it and didn't see it and if I'm hitting an extra target with SoC I thought it would show in recount and it didn't, but I will enable combatlogging as well this time to double check it, and check for DS hits as well to be sure.
I hope it's as simple as this and I have not been testing thoroughly enough.
I hope it's as simple as this and I have not been testing thoroughly enough.
There's at least 2 other reasons we don't test on training dummies.
1) Righteous Vengeance
2) Holy Vengeance
When a target dummy reaches 1 HP (and then does not die) all DoTs begin ticking for 1 damage, not the correct value. Since Holy Vengeance is a DoT, you're missing the DPS this adds to your target, which is far from insignificant. Also, since JoV hits far harder than JoC you miss the difference in their RV ticks.
These combined are typically between 500-600 DPS. A good 400-500 for Holy Vengeance and ~100 more RV from Vengeance.
Some other talent-related buffs have been noticed to not affect damage properly on target dummies. Zurm may remember what they are.
It's been said numerous times - don't test DPS on a target dummy. You get tainted data. Dummies are fine for practicing your priorities and testing new mods, but for damage comparison purposes it's useless.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
Changed my offspec to holy this weekend. Have most slots filled, but they one that is really causing me greif are shoulders. I just want a pair of non-raid, decently itemized shoulders. Am I really going to be wearing cloth from ToC reg unless I'm willing to spend triumphs? I wanted to save my triumphs for my prot spec which still needs the libram and the ring.
there are no craftable or BoE holy plate shoulders that I am aware of. Probably the easiest to obtain shoulders that are still reasonably current and well itemized are [Razorscale Shoulderguards] off 25 man Razorscale.
I've been trying to get CLCret and Power Auras to track the Greatness buff.
For CLCret i want to do something like in this post -> Ret FCFS Rotation Helper
I have managed to track the Berserk buff (from the wpn enchant) but doing the same thing with Greatness doesn't work.
I guess it has to do with the fact that there are more versions of the trinket (str, agil etc.).
But the buff name is the same for all of them "Greatness", isn't it?
Can anybody pls help me out?
I guess for both addons (CLCret and Power Auras) the trick would be the same.
I've been trying to get CLCret and Power Auras to track the Greatness buff.
For CLCret i want to do something like in this post -> Ret FCFS Rotation Helper
I have managed to track the Berserk buff (from the wpn enchant) but doing the same thing with Greatness doesn't work.
I guess it has to do with the fact that there are more versions of the trinket (str, agil etc.).
But the buff name is the same for all of them "Greatness", isn't it?
Can anybody pls help me out?
I guess for both addons (CLCret and Power Auras) the trick would be the same.
Here's how to track the Greatness buff in CLCRet:
Open the CLCRet options and go to "Aura Buttons."
Pick one of the buttons that doesn't have anything assigned to it yet. Enable it, fill in the "Spell/item name/id or buff to track..." field with "Greatness", change the type in the dropdown box to "Generic Buff" and change the target unit to "player" then check off "Cast By Player."
Now go to the layout section and make sure the icon is located where you can see it. (Changing the "Type" to "Skill Always Visible" in the aura buttons section will make this easier, but be sure to change it back if you only want the icon to show when the buff has procced.)
"The question is not how far we are going to take it... the question is, do you possess the constitution to go as far as needed?" - Il Duce
It is, SoC was hitting the target next to it. Can't believe that was happening even though i was trying to prevent it.
But I swear it wasn't happening the last time ... really
Anachronos the dragon out in front of Caverns of Time is a better place to test single target DPS, just judge light and you should heal through the incoming damage and you'll be able to do a couple hundred thousand points of damage before he despawns. He's also a skull level mob so you'll get the same combat table as you would against a raid boss.
Originally Posted by JamesVZ
Yes but you can't guarantee that every 10 man raid would have Party Grenades available right now, so giving this effect to Disco Priests I think is a worthwhile endeavor.
Anachronos the dragon out in front of Caverns of Time is a better place to test single target DPS, just judge light and you should heal through the incoming damage and you'll be able to do a couple hundred thousand points of damage before he despawns. He's also a skull level mob so you'll get the same combat table as you would against a raid boss.
But you would be getting a crapton of parries from attacking from the front.
But you would be getting a crapton of parries from attacking from the front.
You can always ask someone to tank it for you.
Originally Posted by JamesVZ
Yes but you can't guarantee that every 10 man raid would have Party Grenades available right now, so giving this effect to Disco Priests I think is a worthwhile endeavor.
Leveling up my old paladin right now, and Im about 78.5-something. Retribution all the way with BoA gear so its been a quite fast run. Now Im planning to go Holy at 79-something, so I went to the AH to buy myself some BoE-gear to get started, healing in my retrigear might not be the best of choises was my thoughts.
This is somewhat how it looks right now, no gems or enchants yet, but I will add that after work tonight; Profiler - Wowhead
Question is, am I ready to start healing those instances, or should I be doing a few more questchains to improve my gear abit more? I already spent about 1k gold on this BoE-gear last night, haha!
The "Brilliant Saronite.."-gear might not be the best of choises due to its complete lack of +intellect though..
Oufcorse my stats will get abit higher once I find a shield and 2 trinkets, and put enchants/gems on everything, this will be done before I enter any instance.
Just in general, for Mimiron Firefighter on 10man. Would using Seal of Command on the bottom part at the ground make it chain to the body and then to the head with melee attacks? Since I would be able to help dps the head, to some degree.
Out of idle curiosity, are the BiS lists from older patches/expansions archived somewhere or are they gone forever? I'd much rather pull them from here than some random Googled site. They might not have tested it with a spreadsheet O.o
Out of idle curiosity, are the BiS lists from older patches/expansions archived somewhere or are they gone forever? I'd much rather pull them from here than some random Googled site. They might not have tested it with a spreadsheet O.o
I wouldn't use a BiS list from a previous patch, regardless. It's not just the released tier that makes it BiS, but mechanics. As some ability mechanics can change between patches (or our understanding of how they function - thus how spreadsheets and other tools model them) it could vastly alter what would be BiS.
Take Exo affecting any target. While it's a low priority ability, it could affect the weight of, say, crit vs agi. This could throw a single item from top to significantly worse. The next best item may require re-juggling of hit and expertise, causing a chain effect through multiple other items.
If you want a BiS for less than current max tier, you should really re-figure it yourself. I won't even ask why you'd arbitrarily limit yourself to gear from obsolete content.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
Out of idle curiosity, are the BiS lists from older patches/expansions archived somewhere or are they gone forever? I'd much rather pull them from here than some random Googled site. They might not have tested it with a spreadsheet O.o
You can see the 3.2 thread on the front page and I made a 3.1 thread that is decent as well (the thread was bumped maybe 2-3 months ago). Since 3.0 used Seal of Blood so any BiS you could find would be wrong today if you could only use 3.0 gear. People just posted lists in the Ret 3.0 thread, but I decided that it should be in its own thread for patch 3.1.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I wouldn't use a BiS list from a previous patch, regardless. It's not just the released tier that makes it BiS, but mechanics. As some ability mechanics can change between patches (or our understanding of how they function - thus how spreadsheets and other tools model them) it could vastly alter what would be BiS.
Take Exo affecting any target. While it's a low priority ability, it could affect the weight of, say, crit vs agi. This could throw a single item from top to significantly worse. The next best item may require re-juggling of hit and expertise, causing a chain effect through multiple other items.
If you want a BiS for less than current max tier, you should really re-figure it yourself. I won't even ask why you'd arbitrarily limit yourself to gear from obsolete content.
Older BiS isn't for raid gearing purposes, it's actually for collection purposes for me. I'd just like to know which sets were BiS a long time ago so that I can get some pre-BC and BC sets together to wear for fun. I have the full Scarlet set in my bank, and it's definitely not what I would use for raiding, from a stat or itemization perspective.
Even if you don't raid at all and only do heroic instances, you can get the emblems to buy some of the newer tiers of gear making the older BiS lists no longer 'BiS' from an obtainable point of view. And as mentioned, changed mechanics will equally make it invalid.
If you want sets 'for fun', you should go for items that match well together, rather than a random collection of items which at some point happened to be BiS.
In fight like Kologarn or Anub' Arak 10H or 25, where there is exactly 3 target to dps it's better to use SoVenge/Corruption (i've the 200str libram and i exactly cap the Exp with the glyph) or the SoC?
I thought it was better SoV but at Kologarn a couple of days ago i've start a DPS race with an Hunter, and obviusly he has owned me, but when i switch SoC i've noticed a rise in the dps from 6500 to 7800, it was just some trinket / berserking proc?
Another thing, i've dropped the tank 1h weapon [Ardent Guard]
If at the start of a fight i'd swich it to reach 5 SoV stacks faster and then return to 2h it'd be a boost or a waste of dps? With Windfury, the Equip Haste and the swift retribution in about 5-6 seconds i reach the 5 stack, do you know anything about this? (Sorry for the horrible english!)
Just got another brain twisting question for all you smart types. In short: Haste cap.
How much haste we suppose to have? I have 733 haste and with self buff I cast flash in 1.1s and 1.4s HL. The problem is in raid that don't change much really. While flash is getting to 1.0s, but HL doesn't.
Raid haste buff: shaman totem, retropally auras, w/o boomkin.
With haste food, (or another haste item, 773/850 haste) I get 1.0s cast of flash and 1.4s cast with HL, but I assume this will even change to 0.9s, 1.3s in raid with totem and retro auras. Will it?
What can you suggest about haste values? I find casting HL for 1.4s alarming and unpleasant. 1.3 or 1.2 is much much more preferrable. But what haste is needed for those speeds?
To summarize I put these questions here:
a) What is our haste cap?
b) What haste # or haste % is needed to get HL cast time to 1.4/1.3/1.2s?
c) Will boomkin contribute and decrease 1.4s cast of HL to 1.3 w/733 haste?
Just got another brain twisting question for all you smart types. In short: Haste cap.
How much haste we suppose to have? I have 733 haste and with self buff I cast flash in 1.1s and 1.4s HL. The problem is in raid that don't change much really. While flash is getting to 1.0s, but HL doesn't.
Raid haste buff: shaman totem, retropally auras, w/o boomkin.
With haste food, (or another haste item, 773/850 haste) I get 1.0s cast of flash and 1.4s cast with HL, but I assume this will even change to 0.9s, 1.3s in raid with totem and retro auras. Will it?
What can you suggest about haste values? I find casting HL for 1.4s alarming and unpleasant. 1.3 or 1.2 is much much more preferrable. But what haste is needed for those speeds?
To summarize I put these questions here:
a) What is our haste cap?
b) What haste # or haste % is needed to get HL cast time to 1.4/1.3/1.2s?
c) Will boomkin contribute and decrease 1.4s cast of HL to 1.3 w/733 haste?
thank you all.
a)
Fully raid buffed as a paladin (having boomkin/retri and a shaman) you need 675 haste rating to get FoL and the GCD down to 1s and to get HL down to 1.33s.
b)
If you want even faster HLs here are the numbers (assuming full raid buffs):
1.3s - 777 Haste
1.2s - 1115 Haste
1.1s - 1515 Haste
1.0s - 1994 Haste
c)
Boomkin aura does not stack with Swift retribution from a retri paladin.
Another thing, i've dropped the tank 1h weapon [Ardent Guard]
If at the start of a fight i'd swich it to reach 5 SoV stacks faster and then return to 2h it'd be a boost or a waste of dps? With Windfury, the Equip Haste and the swift retribution in about 5-6 seconds i reach the 5 stack, do you know anything about this? (Sorry for the horrible english!)
We've investigated using a fast 1H (back in the 3.2 PTR thread, I believe) to stack SoV faster, then weapon swapping. It is a universal DPS loss - don't do it.
Originally Posted by Irri
To summarize I put these questions here:
a) What is our haste cap?
b) What haste # or haste % is needed to get HL cast time to 1.4/1.3/1.2s?
c) Will boomkin contribute and decrease 1.4s cast of HL to 1.3 w/733 haste?
a) Cap is when casts are at 1 second. You cannot reduce global cooldown below 1 second, so after a 0.9 second Flash you'd twiddle your thumbs for 0.1 seconds before you could cast another. 100% haste grants twice as many casts (not instant casts). 100% haste would reduce HL from 2 seconds to 1 second.
b) Haste is calculated as follows: Cast Time / (100% + Haste%)
Holy Light is 2.5 seconds, drops to 2.0 after talents. 15% haste after a Judge. 5% for Wrath of Air totem. 3% Haste from Boomkin/Ret Paladin. +% haste from rating. Quite possibly haste from something else slipping my mind.
1.4 = 2 / (1 + .23 + x)
1.722 + 1.4x = 2
1.4x = .278
x = .199 or x = 20% haste or 505 haste rating
1.3 = 2 / (1.23 + x)
1.6 + 1.3x = 2
1.3x = .4
x = .308 or x = 31% haste or 782 haste rating
1.2 = 2 / (1.23 + x)
1.476 + 1.2x = 2
1.2x = .524
x = .436 or x = 44% haste or 1110 haste rating
Repeat the math for any number you desire. Remember, you reduce cast by 0.5 seconds (to 2.0) before applying haste, not after.
c) see answer to B, above. Boomkin/Ret, Judgment, and Wrath of Air put you at about 1.32 seconds.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
...Holy Light is 2.5 seconds, drops to 2.0 after talents. 15% haste after a Judge. 5% for Wrath of Air totem. 3% Haste from Boomkin/Ret Paladin. +% haste from rating. Quite possibly haste from something else slipping my mind.
1.4 = 2 / (1 + .23 + x)
1.722 + 1.4x = 2
1.4x = .278
x = .199 or x = 20% haste or 505 haste rating
...
Haste is combined multiplicative not additive so 1.15*1.05*1.03 = 1.2437 and not 1.23.
1.4 = 2 / (1.23*x) and rating needed = (x-1)*32.79*100
So for 1.4s HL you need around 487 rating.
In fight like Kologarn or Anub' Arak 10H or 25, where there is exactly 3 target to dps it's better to use SoVenge/Corruption (i've the 200str libram and i exactly cap the Exp with the glyph) or the SoC?
I thought it was better SoV but at Kologarn a couple of days ago i've start a DPS race with an Hunter, and obviusly he has owned me, but when i switch SoC i've noticed a rise in the dps from 6500 to 7800, it was just some trinket / berserking proc?
You will get a higher number of overall DPS done with SOC because you have 2 additional targets to hit.
However your overall dps on the part that matters will be lower.
It depends on what your raid leader wants, but typically you're expected to dps a specific single target. Any circumstantial aoe/cleave damage happening is "bonus". Padding your dps numbers by getting extra damage done on side targets at the cost of lower damage where it matters is a bad thing. If the side damage is desired, it's probably not too bad. If the side damage upsets the tactic it can cause a wipe. Padding the dps just to own the meters is a bad idea.
Check with your raid leader what's desired more... More damage on a specific single target and less aoe/cleave damage, or more damage overall but lower damage on a specific target.
I guess that Everything between these values really is either undercapped or overcapped, right?
487(1.4) > 777(1.3s) > 1115(1.2)
The other really strange thingie. At armory I have 773 rating and 29.06% haste. In game, I have same and 23.57%.
Which one to trust? How they are being calculated?
The other really strange thingie. At armory I have 773 rating and 29.06% haste. In game, I have same and 23.57%.
Which one to trust? How they are being calculated?
Armory appears to be multiplying Spell Haste by the paladin Melee Haste rating instead of the flat Spell Haste rating. In addition to Sno's correction above, I think I used that same Melee Haste rating number for my calculations.
Trust in-game, it will be what WoW is actually using.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
11/09/09, 11:25 AM
Similar Threads
