Yes, but not enough to make it better than any other stat.

Quick questions please.

Regarding the Twins fight in TOC25 - If use the Light Aura and everyone else is my party goes Dark Aura.. When Light Surge happens, if I use Divine Sac will I just immune all of the damage taken?

Also, if someone else in the raid (not in my party) uses Divine Sac with the Divine Guardian talents would their Divine Guardian stack with my Divine Sac?

Thanks if you know!

Is it, or has it been noted whether SoCleave is still a good seal to use for heroics tanking? I am limited to 5man's and pug raids as my pally is an alt. I am using THIS talent/glyph setup, and generally it has worked well. One problem I am having though is my mana. I generally have ~6k and unless I have at least 3-4mobs on me, I just can't keep over at least 70% (on a number of single target pulls I can dip to 20-30%). I always make sure holy shield is on, I keep it on my main bar (even though it is in my macro). Is there something I am missing? Or is it just a result of it being heroics (the issue is less prevalent in raids)?

Remember that SoC only cleaves from single target strikes.

I am trying to find out which libram would be best for trash when I am using seal of command and 2 pc t10? I have heard the libram that adds damage to devine storm is best which makes sense, but I would like any of your opinions. I use Rawr but it is not loading for me since last update for some reason. Thanks in advance.

It is outstanding for heroics and trash packs, but SoV is far superior on a boss/single target trash.

Shield of Righteousness is now a melee single target strike, so that made SoC viable for heroic tanking.

The Deadly PvP libram (gives 120 AP) is better than Discord. I believe the Furious version (144 AP) will be buy-able with honor at the end of January (you can buy Deadly now for around 15k honor).

Thanks for that info, I was wandering about this one [Libram of Discord] ? It seems with non stop ds going off on trash with socom this would be very good. Although it would be hard to get since I never run uld 25 anymore. Do you think this would outperform the pvp librams in these specific cases?

Edit-just realized it is buyable from badges, so I'it gona do some testing with it.

As I am starting to use my Ret OS more, I wondered about the AoE rotation with 2pc9. Normal (SoV) single target priority is (according to the Ret Guide):

Judgement > HoW > CS > DS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath

I would say that HoW drops down because it doesn't proc SoC and because mobs might be dead before it is off GCD and that HW might pull ahead of Exo. Does Consecrate overtake DS? And with 2pc10?

My guess in AoE situations is J > CS > DS > Cons > HW > HoW > Exo

I have a quick question about when to use wings, I know to try and pop them during trinket procs and hero but at the start of the fight before you are at 5 stacks of SoV is it better to wait for 5 stacks or pop them as soon as your trinket procs are up.

As most trinkets have a 45 second ICD and SoV takes 15 seconds to stack, switch your two trinkets 30 seconds before the pull. This puts both trinkets on ICD and a stack of 5 SoV and your first trinket procs will happen at the same time.

edit: just saw a question above about pretty much the same thing. just to reiterate mine is about burst, though they may still be the same

what is a good move priority for groups of trash in heroics or otherwise? i know this greatly depends on the amount of mobs and the fight duration etc, but im just looking for a basic answer, assuming theres not enough time for a full 'aoe rotation' (5 second-10 second aoe trash fight maybe) what order moves is best burst aoe using socleave. (hope this question makes sense)

If you want a rough estimate, take your DPS with just the raw stats of Bryntroll and add 400.

If you want an exact DPS number from Drain Life, add this to any cell in the "Main" spreadsheet page of Redscape's sheet:

((E5/B17)+(G30*B12/100*3)+(G30*2*(1-B12/100))+G28*2*B12/100+G28*(1-B12/100)+G29*2*B12/100+G29*(1-B12/100))*0.113*2250*(B15/100)*(1.03)*(1.13)*(1.06)*(1.01)*(1.05)*(0.96)/E5

Explanation:

Drain Life DPS = (((fight length)/(weapon speed)+(Judgement crits)*3+(Judgement hits)*2+(CS crits)*2+(CS hits)+(DS crits)*2+(DS hits))*(proc rate)*(avg proc damage)*(spell hit)*(sanctified retribution)*(ebon plaguebringer)*(crusade)*(sense undead)*(avenging wrath avg)*(partial resist))/(fight length)

It increases the value of armor penetration, but it also increases the value of crit and haste, so armor pen is still a solid last.

Our best gear is now str/sta/crit/haste for plate pieces, and by quite a margin.

I just finished my BiS Tankadin list.
Would be great if you could give me some feedback on weather you agree or disagree regarding the list or specific itemslots.
Here we go (I left out Trinkets on purpose because I am not sure how good the Emblem-Trinket and "The Black Heart" are in ICC fights):

Head: [Sanctified Lightsworn Faceguard] 277
Neck: [Bile-Encrusted Medallion] 277 Rotface 25HC
Shoulders: [Boneguard Commander's Pauldrons] 277 Gunship 25HC
Back: [Sentinel's Winter Cloak] 264 Badges
Chest: [Sanctified Lightsworn Chestguard] 277
Wrist: [Bracers of Dark Reckoning] 277 Marrowgar 25HC
Hands: [Taldaram's Plated Fists] 277 25HC
Waist: [Belt of Broken Bones] 277 Festergut 25HC
Legs: [Sanctified Lightsworn Legguards] 277
Feet: [Grinning Skull Greatboots] 277 Valithria 25HC
Finger1: [Devium's Eternally Cold Ring] 277 Valithria 25HC
Finger2: [Devium's Eternally Cold Ring] 264 Valithria 25
Weapon: [Orgrim's Deflector] 258 Tribute Chest
Shield: [Icecrown Glacial Wall] 277 Blood Queen 25HC
Libram: [Libram of Defiance] 245 Badges

edit:
*fixed ItemID for Finger2 should display the 264 Version now.

You cannot have two of the same item like the Devium's Eternally Cold Ring (you can have either the 264 or 277, not both at the same time).

The Organ from 10 is BiS (gives armor and a stacking stamina buff) trinket. Besides that trinket, the others are situational. You can't go wrong with a stamina trinket though.

Personally, I consider the 264 +armor pieces better than the Tier pieces (like Pillars of Might).

I did some rough math on what the 264 +armor items would give in terms of EH in the Prot thread, so check there if you want to see how much the extra armor helps us.

As far as [The Black Heart]'s value is concerned, at best the armor is worth roughly 100 stamina according to Theck's math on EH, making it about 226 stam if all the incoming damage can be mitigated by armor. Since no current fight is like that, take the percentage of damage mitigatable by armor and that's how much extra stam you can effectively tack onto it.

I disagree with the weapon choice since [Bonebreaker Scepter] and [The Facelifter] are already known. The absolute best traditional weapon that's been datamined however is Troggbane which presumably drops from the Lich King himself. [Last Word] has yet to be fully tested, but at least it's available now so we'll see if it's even worthwhile.

Ok, really quick...

Bryntroll, which was double proc'ing off of SoV (I believe that was the issue) and giving Ret Paladins double the health return / damage of tother classes, was recently "fixed". I've heard that the change they implemented changed "SoV" so that it will no longer "double attack" for proc based weapon enchants. Enchants such as Blade Ward, Mongoose, and weapons like Bryntroll.

Can anyone confirm this?

If this is the case, what becomes the new BIS Prot Paladin tanking weapon enchant? There has been much debate over this and I really just wanted some basic feed back. I'm currently using Blade Ward because I'd read somewhere, that in 3.2 the proc chance had been increased, and my personal testing seemed to confirm that. I don't need the hit from Accuracy at the moment, so really I was wondering between Mongoose and Blade Ward, although if both were "nerfed" I'm open to new suggestions. I've checked around to a number of other forums searching for real data and I can't find any.

Thanks!

Maintankadin • View topic - Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Theck and a few others have run many mathematical models and calcs involving Paladin mechanics and tank mechanics in general. If you have a question along those lines, those posts are probably the place to look. The above link gives a summary of the current state of Mongoose and Blade Ward. Basically, Mongoose has a higher uptime than Blade Ward.

Proc rate enchants are nurfed.

• For threat, Accuracy/Weapon chain are your choices.
• Blade Ward is a bad enchant compared to the next three due to how it works with parry.
• Mongoose is the only enchant that provides EH, threat, and avoidance. It has about a 35% up-time, ~42 agility.
• Blood Draining is decent choice if you are worried about dying, but sometimes the stack isn't full when you need it.
• 26 agility if you do not like the up-time of Mongoose and prefer a steady bonus.

I'm assuming this is a function of time rather than amount of targets, and has there been any maths on the subject anywhere? I use SoComm on ICC trash simply because it's my opinion that tanking ends as soon as everything is attacking you where it does a better job than SoV, particularly on Deathwhisper adds. Regardless, it'd be nice to know from a tank DPS flexing perspective, if anything.

The math is somewhere in the Ret threads if you want to see SoC vs SoV in the Ret 3.2 thread. The issue is after you get a 5 stack up, SoV starts hitting hard but it takes time to get up and is tough to get a 5 stack on every mob.

You are right, on trash packs Command is better for dps unless it is just one trash mob then SoV pulls ahead. Just remember to Libram swap (if you are using 200 strength libram with SoV).

When you cast exorcism, it works like other spells and means you have no avoidance, and pally tanks should thus avoid it, right? I was sure this was the case, but a prot pally in our guild is insisting otherwise.