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Old 02/02/10, 6:12 AM   #2026
Glutton
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kalecgos
Dreamwalker is opening up this week, so if you want to save some cash [Scourge Reaver's Legplates] are probably the strongest non-tier leg piece.

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Old 02/02/10, 3:57 PM   #2027
bcsoldier
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Turalyon
I read a while back that Malevolent Girdle was below the listed item level when it came out. Does anyone know if that got fixed? I read that it was going to be but didn't see anything about it in the patch notes.

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Old 02/02/10, 4:02 PM   #2028
Glutton
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kalecgos
Malevolent Girdle was fixed. It now has 23 more crit and 27 more hit.

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Old 02/02/10, 4:36 PM   #2029
Sohlee
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Blackrock (EU)
Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
Use double solace. Don't use wings with DI.
I was also tending to double solace. But why not using DI with wings to compensate Plea? This would give you 0,5 Plea * 1,2 (Wings) * 1,35 DI = 0,81 Healing. Probably enough to keep the Tank alive isn't it?

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Old 02/02/10, 5:10 PM   #2030
Lord Loom
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Doomhammer (EU)
The idea would be to keep wings as a 2nd cooldown to mitigate the healing reduction, allowing you to plea more often. You only get 67.5% (DI with 2pc T10) and 60% (wings) of your regular healing, but being able to use more HL in general should make up for that - just don't do it during the 3rd inhale stack on Festergut, eg.

Everyone always coming to Zathras with problems. Great responsibilities. But Zathras does not mind. Zathras trained in crisis management.

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Old 02/03/10, 5:21 PM   #2031
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by ol3ron View Post
Hi, yesterday on a discussion i heard that crit have diminishing return, but i never heard something like that...

I seached a bit and i read that isn't crit that have diminishing return but damage on critical increase: ex.

Ok now applying to a paladin what's the truth?

p.s: i'm aware of melee crit cap (71.2%)
I am not sure what those numbers are, but assuming all your damage is able to crit, 1% crit is 1% more damage. However, Consecration, SoV DoT, and sometimes Exorcism (it always crits on Undead/Demon), Hammer of Wrath (if you have 50% crit from gear, it always crits), and Righteous Vengance (unless 2 Tier 9), and do not benefit from crit, so it is less for Ret depending on the target and current gear.

Using my numbers on an Undead target while having 50% crit using Tier 9 and hit/expertise capped, I get Cons 10%, SoV dot 5%, Exo/Hammer 3% each. So 21% for me is unaffected by crit, so 1% crit gives me .79% damage using those numbers/situations. It doesn't change until you reach the auto attack crit cap, then another 20% damage cannot crit.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 02/03/10, 7:49 PM   #2032
godamit69
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Detheroc
Judgment also has 18% higher crit chance because of fanaticism. I know this is after auto attack crit cap but is something to think about for the value of crit.

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Old 02/04/10, 11:09 AM   #2033
GlacialRet
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
The Deadly PvP libram (gives 120 AP) is better than Discord. I believe the Furious version (144 AP) will be buy-able with honor at the end of January (you can buy Deadly now for around 15k honor).
Last night I bought the [Furious Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude] from the PvP vendor in Dalaran for 12k honor (no longer requires arena rating) to replace the Deadly version. I am using 2 piece T9 and 2 piece T10 so is this libram still better than Discord for SoC (and SoR if needed)? Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss a change.

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Old 02/04/10, 12:56 PM   #2034
snifit7
Glass Joe
 
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Human Paladin
 
Frostmane
Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
I am not sure what those numbers are, but assuming all your damage is able to crit, 1% crit is 1% more damage.

No. 1% crit is only 1% more damage if your baseline is 0% crit.

Call 100% the damage you do without critting (i.e. 0% crit). Adding 1% crit will boost your damage to 101% (assume for simplicity that all of your abilities can crit). Here, 1% crit is the same as 1% more damage.
Let's say you now crit 50% of the time, so your damage is 150% of the baseline. Adding 1% crit brings you to 151% damage, which is a 0.67% damage increase.

This is a separate idea entirely than the notion that some of your abilities can't crit, and that therefore a 1% crit increase is not a 1% damage increase, even at the baseline.

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Old 02/05/10, 12:49 AM   #2035
Soher
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ragnaros (EU)
Originally Posted by PallyDruidLock View Post
There is lots and lots of hit rating on ret gear at the tier 9 level; so much, that somehow I'm spell hitcapped (horrible, I know)

while I attempt to lose around 200 hit rating, does my FCFS change due to exorcism/cons never missing?
While being over the melee hit cap can sligthy increase your dps, it's never worth changing your rotation because of it as Exorcism's contribute to your total DPS isn't that remarkable.

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Old 02/05/10, 8:03 AM   #2036
Handyhoof
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Lightbringer
What you're trying to say is that crit is a linear gain (assuming no other stat inflation which would not be realistic.) Each point of crit is worth x dps. The confusing part is that x is a smaller percentage of dps at low levels of crit than high ones. Both views are correct. Each point of crit adds the same amount of damage when all other factors remain the same. Also true is that each point of crit adds a smaller percent of damage than the last because the intersection point is at 0% crit.

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Old 02/05/10, 4:15 PM   #2037
TimWischmeier
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kult der Verdammten (EU)
Does anyone know a mod that warns you when your BoL heals are not transferring? It should work in the way that it actually waits for heals to land on your BoL target a short time after you hit someone else with a heal.

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Old 02/05/10, 8:10 PM   #2038
Briora
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Forscherliga (EU)
After reading carefully through the "Holy Paladin Compendium for 3.3" I'am still confused about two things:


1. Gear upgrades:
I am currently sitting at 120+ frost emblems and now wondering if i can buy anything really useful for them.
Since, according to the compendium and theorycraft mp5 and haste are more useful than crit i'd be stupid
to replace [Turalyon's Gloves of Triumph] with [Gauntlets of Overexposure]
or [Deathspeaker Disciple's Belt] with [Lich Killer's Lanyard]
because I'd give up too much mp5 and (some) haste (only) for a (good) amount of crit.
But if thats correct, are there any major plate upgrades in non-heroic ICC 25 for ilvl plate 245 and mail 251 gear with haste/mp5, because there aren't any haste/mp5 plate pieces in ICC. (and same for T10 set)


2. Flasks
[Flask of Distilled Wisdom] - Still a solid overall option even though it is from Vanilla.
That gives me (without Mixology)
* 65 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
* 975 Mana at the start of the fight
* 23mp5 from Divine Plea, if its used on CD.
* 12mp5 from Replenishment, with 90% uptime.
* 16 Spell Power
* 0.45% Spell Crit

Assumed you're not running oom: Isn't that just solid but the best option (besides Guru's Elixir and Mighty Thoughts combination)? (Side note: I think its from BC and not Vanilla.)

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Old 02/05/10, 8:34 PM   #2039
 Mex
Sour Bear Mojo
 
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Mex
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Briora View Post
After reading carefully through the "Holy Paladin Compendium for 3.3" I'am still confused about two things:


1. Gear upgrades:
I am currently sitting at 120+ frost emblems and now wondering if i can buy anything really useful for them.
Since, according to the compendium and theorycraft mp5 and haste are more useful than crit i'd be stupid
to replace [Turalyon's Gloves of Triumph] with [Gauntlets of Overexposure]
or [Deathspeaker Disciple's Belt] with [Lich Killer's Lanyard]
because I'd give up too much mp5 and (some) haste (only) for a (good) amount of crit.
But if thats correct, are there any major plate upgrades in non-heroic ICC 25 for ilvl plate 245 and mail 251 gear with haste/mp5, because there aren't any haste/mp5 plate pieces in ICC. (and same for T10 set)


2. Flasks

That gives me (without Mixology)
* 65 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
* 975 Mana at the start of the fight
* 23mp5 from Divine Plea, if its used on CD.
* 12mp5 from Replenishment, with 90% uptime.
* 16 Spell Power
* 0.45% Spell Crit

Assumed you're not running oom: Isn't that just solid but the best option (besides Guru's Elixir and Mighty Thoughts combination)? (Side note: I think its from BC and not Vanilla.)
First off, too many people seem to be reading "haste/mp5 is optimal" with "critical strike rate lowers your healing". Crit is still a very good stat, it's just that the other two are slightly better. Those gloves represent an upgrade of 35 int over T9, plus a whopping 80 crit. Assuming a rough 2:1 ratio of regen for mp5:crit, and factoring in itemisation budgets, you're looking at 60 points of regen on T9 versus 75 on the frost badge. You lose a couple of haste but gain a couple of SP, plus gain the extra stamina.

You can't just look for blanket rules (ie "stack X until it reaches Y then Z") when gearing as a holy paladin, you need to understand the stats and how powerful they are. The rules of thumb provided come with the caveat that they're only applicable to equal iLvL items, and that the boost in int from higher level gear is a powerful factor in its favour, even if it's not ideally itemised.

Secondly, distilled wisdom is from vanilla, and is probably the best option if you can plea without penalty, on cooldown. The less you plea, and the longer the fight lasts, the better Pure Mojo becomes comparitively.

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Old 02/05/10, 9:41 PM   #2040
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Briora View Post
well, i was sure they were a really good upgrade, until i read the compendium :-s
Because there are perople some pronouncing so hard that haste/mp5 is optimal and crit is a almost meaningless (pure) luck stat which tends to fail if you really need it (heh, Murphys Law even rules in WoW almost like taking crit makes you a lowbob.
Thanks for your answer, I am going to gear, as I first off planned.
But it'd still like to here what you think about the belt, because there the crit/haste tradeoff is quite big.

And not that it really matters... but i bought the recipe for distilled wisdom in Zangarmarsh, so I believe its from BC.
If you want a general rule, crit is half as good as mp5. In many cases (certainly in yours), the higher item level piece wins.

Distilled Wisdom came from Classic (it was a random drop then). The devs added it to Zangermarsh rep so more people could get it.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 02/06/10, 4:32 PM   #2041
mofidik
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Doomhammer (EU)
I have a question regarding Judgement of the Just. Basically, I'm curious as to whether the urban myths about JotJ dropping when an other (ret/holy) paladin judges the same judgement as the protection paladin are true. I've personally always shrugged it off as people having wonky UIs since I have never noticed anything of such sort personally, but then it's not entirely impossible for the rumours to be true.

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Old 02/06/10, 7:47 PM   #2042
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by mofidik View Post
I have a question regarding Judgement of the Just. Basically, I'm curious as to whether the urban myths about JotJ dropping when an other (ret/holy) paladin judges the same judgement as the protection paladin are true. I've personally always shrugged it off as people having wonky UIs since I have never noticed anything of such sort personally, but then it's not entirely impossible for the rumours to be true.
Maybe a long time ago, but at least for the last few months JotJ does not drop with another Paladin Judges. Other another JotJ can overwrite it (two Prot Pallies judgeing the same target).

E: However similar abilities such as Thunderclap can override it if it is talented.

Last edited by frmorrison : 02/07/10 at 12:19 AM.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 02/07/10, 3:08 AM   #2043
Herzak
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Aerie Peak
Kings/Might Scaling

I was wondering if Kings will outscale Improved Might in AP gain with currently obtainable gear?

If so.. what is the strength break-even point for Kings to beat Might in AP gain?

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Old 02/07/10, 4:47 AM   #2044
cremor
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Rexxar (EU)
Originally Posted by mofidik View Post
I have a question regarding Judgement of the Just. Basically, I'm curious as to whether the urban myths about JotJ dropping when an other (ret/holy) paladin judges the same judgement as the protection paladin are true.
It's not a urban myth. It was true until Patch 3.2, when it was fixed.
Since Patch 3.2 it's a own debuff, before it was just a modified judgement debuff.

From the official Patch 3.2.0 patchnotes:
Judgement of the Just: The effect from this talent will no longer be removed if a paladin without this talent overwrites the judgement placed by a paladin who does have the talent.

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Old 02/07/10, 10:05 AM   #2045
PallyDruidLock
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thorium Brotherhood
Originally Posted by Herzak View Post
I was wondering if Kings will outscale Improved Might in AP gain with currently obtainable gear?

If so.. what is the strength break-even point for Kings to beat Might in AP gain?
I don't think that in terms of AP gains kings will ever pass might
improved might gives around 660AP IIRC
it takes 330 strength after talents to get 660AP
for kings to give more than 330 strength you'd need over 3300 strength (we're assuming unbuffed since you'll have both might and kings in most group scenarios)
my ret is only in t9 gear and is running around 1600, so I somewhat doubt that will be doubling through an increase of 1tier in gear.

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Old 02/07/10, 10:59 AM   #2046
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Herzak View Post
I was wondering if Kings will outscale Improved Might in AP gain with currently obtainable gear?

If so.. what is the strength break-even point for Kings to beat Might in AP gain?
Kings is better than Might with 277 gear when raid buffed (while you may have less attack power, the extra agility pulls it ahead). This is with both the 3300 strength and 2400 strength versions of 277 gear. However, solo (so just Ret buffs), Might is slightly better.

The difference was less than 50 dps, so if survival is not an issue Might is always better until you have a full set of 277 gear. Note due to Drums of Kings, you can get Might and 8% all stats to yourself anytime you need it.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 02/07/10, 4:16 PM   #2047
ragemustang
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Eredar
A pally's basic tanking rotation uses mostly moves that require shields. My question is does block value affect the damage that your shield does when using those attacks, or does it only affect the defensive value of how much damage is absorbed?

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Old 02/08/10, 5:42 AM   #2048
Neraya
Banned
 
Human Paladin
 
Khadgar (EU)
Block value increases the damage done by Shield of Righteousness.
Strength increases block value also, which in turn also increases shield damage.
Note that the amount of block value that can contribute to extra damage is capped.

Block rating increases your chance to block. It doesn't increase SoR damage. But it can increase damage done by having more Holy shields procs and shield spike procs.

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Old 02/08/10, 7:40 AM   #2049
Shimba85
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
On for example Valithria Dreamwalker.. if I beacon her and heal the raid (as suggested in the 3.3 holy compendium), will my heals that are transferred onto her benefit of +healing buffs that is on her (such as "Guardian Spirit")?

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Old 02/08/10, 8:37 AM   #2050
Sparty
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Shimba85 View Post
On for example Valithria Dreamwalker.. if I beacon her and heal the raid (as suggested in the 3.3 holy compendium), will my heals that are transferred onto her benefit of +healing buffs that is on her (such as "Guardian Spirit")?
Yes, though there is a cooldown for Guardian Spirit on her which will only allow it once per minute.

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