This question is for Holy Paladins,

If you are the only Paladin in the raid or group what is better to cast on yourself, Blessing of Wisdom or Blessing of Kings?

Also is Imp Blessing of Wisdom worth the talent points?

Thanks,

I made some testing about this "ghost hit" and i have to say that there's definately no point to stack +hit like it was "suposed" to be.


Going into naax with a veryyyyy bad gear with only 5% hit (trust me, its bad), on the full run i had less than 1% miss rate wich can be aquainted by 5%+4% (ghost hit) => 9%


At the present moment i'm terribly divided between gear upgrades. At this point basicaly everything i can get IS an upgrade, but i dont realy know if i should aim to up my +hit (expecting blizzard to fix this) or should i "cheat" (yes, because it feels like it to me) and go full out disregarding +hit.


I think its a safe bet that blizzard will fix this in un upcoming patch, but at the present moment EVERY +HIT POINT I GET is a wasted stat because it has zero effect.


Kinda ironic if you ask me !

Edit: Oh, yes, that's true (that BoK increases mana size and thus mana regen). Nvm this.

BoK increases mana regen due to increased mana pool, as a lot of your regen is based on your maximum mana (divine plea, replenishment).

If everything is an upgrade, go ahead and collect the gear for hitcap, like always, and then make a sideset of ap/crit gear for exploiting the ghosthit while it lasts. Thats what most of the seasoned people will be doing, and it covers your butt for when GC gets around to addressing the issue.

I have a question with reguards to the usage of Avenging Wrath,

I have the glyph of AW attached which reduces CD of Hammer of Wrath by 50%

but my problem is that sometimes shaman pops heroism, and I'm not sure if I should use AW for when heroism is up, or save AW for sub 20% for hammer of wrath.

Anyone got an answer to this?

I was wondering when I should be using a seal and when I should use another one. I've listed them here below and I already filled some info I gathered from personal experience and from reading threads in this board.

Blood/Martyr: dps
Command: pvp (or dps when you can't use blood/martyr)
Righteous: if you haven't the previous
Corruption/Vengeance: ???

When is it useful to use corruption/vengeance? Also, if I made any error or omitted something relevant, please add such info.

Thanks.

Seal of Vengeance/Corruption is primarily used for tanking. (Secondarily for dotting rogues to keep them from escaping.)

I'm noticing alot of raid builds without Reckoning. Presumably because as your avoidance grows, chance of it proccing diminishes. Is there a certain commonly-agreed point where people drop Reckoning talent?

I'm still levelling my paladin, but quite enjoy Reckoning for levelling.

I raided last night with my paladin, and I was confused as to what my DPS rotation should be in a place like naxx where the majority of things are undead with AE mixed in.

Ok, so I'm another rogue rerolled to ret pally (no really, I did it so I could occasionally heal).

I've done a lot of research and on the whole, in 5 and 10 mans my dps is great, and I'm #1/2 on the whole. And in 10 mans I'm not noticing a real mana issue.

But once I go up to 25 mans I've noticed an issue with my mana, and I end up dropping to about the middle of the pack (as in 9th, and being passed by the same people I cream in 5's and 10's). In that I run out in about 2-3 minutes. However, that's the same amount of time it takes me to run out of mana when I'm on a target dummy and using the same rotation.

Currently I'm using cs>judge>ds and weaving in cons (which is actually what the other ret paladin says he has been doing but he's not had any mana issues). I've also started throwing in divine plea (when all others are on cooldown) during my tests on the dummy to see if it helps extend my rotation. But that seems to lessen my dps significantly, barely outpacing any longevity benefits (I'm guessing it's because of swing regen lost combined with the minor reduction to spell damage).

I'm running the som, judgement, and cs glyphs.

My mana gain seems to be one of the lowest when I went to the 25s with anywhere between 2-6% less mana gain than the other ret paladin.

I'm wondering whether its; my using consecrate (which I know is a mana hog, but also according to recount is being used about the same amount by the other paladin), my starting with cs, or if I just am not receiving as much effective healing in 25s other than a small constant top-up.

It isn't that big of a gear disparity between us either. Except that he has a little more gear with int on it. But most people say mana shouldn't be an issue when you go into 25s anyway, which is why it's even more mystifying.

me: The World of Warcraft Armory

the other ret: The World of Warcraft Armory

I appreciate any help/input offered.

It's odd that it would only happen in 25 man instances though. At the same time I'm 99% certain the major problem really is the degenerating rotation from going oom. My recount data (and I will post it when I get home if I don't get a satisfactory answer) says that I am judging nearly the same amount, and the minor difference could easily be explained with my compensating in the wrong manner and somehow incorporate fewer judgements.

I guess the other part of the question is whether I'm possibly being counter-intuitive by just using abilities when they come up (i.e. starting with judge>cs>ds and then that adjusts as timers come up) rather than maintaining the strict rotation.

If you can tell I'm going to believe user error rather than mechanical error.

I wouldn't say there is a commonly agreed point, though I do think (most) Protection Paladins agree it's the first talent to consider dropping in case you need to spec for Blessing of Kings. This also partly has to do with the fact that threat, single target or otherwise, isn't a major concern. Reckoning is also weaker when used with Seal of Vengeance/Corruption, which remains the seal of choice for typical tanking scenarios.

Question regarding Lost Judgements:
Could this be based on server lag? I think I've noticed it mid-fight (mostly when my mana doesn't come back) when I'm perfectly in the groove. If you Judge, then immediately use another ability, often this is the lost Judgement.

Judgement has (up to) 3 effects - first is a debuff, second is damage, third is mana refund (with JotW). I suspect we could be Judging, then before the server can resolve all three our other ability goes off and the server drops everything it was calculating for the Judgement.

I only have anecdotal evidence, those who have scanned their logs and found these blank spaces where judgements should be - do you find another ability (CS, DS, Cons, etc) more or less in the correct spot or 1.5 sec afterwards? I find it ironic if this proves true - the better the play, the worse you suffer?

Another test for Ret could be to wait for mana refund after Judge before using any other ability.



Ghost Hit:
Seems Hunters are finding some ghost hit - 6.47% was enough to not miss. Pet did miss because 3% from talents does not affect their pets. Hunter Hit Thread

And here's a spriest under hit cap after buffs included, no misses.

Could ghost hit be a much larger scale situation? Rather than ghost hit, could they have changed the amount required to hit a +3 across the board? If true the next question is - just 9% melee cap, or also the 17% caster cap?

re: lost judgements

I think I've been experiencing this, seeing this thread I'll now get more scientific about it
* I do have times with a fair bit of latency/lag/packet loss
* The judgement seems to go away/do nothing [e.g. no miss, nothing reported] yet put on CD
* If this is the same thing, I've noticed this while soloing, non-instance

Now that I see this chatter I'll watch the combat log and see if I can track this at all
It may be more prevalent/noticeable in busy instance situations, but if I turn something up I'll post it

There's already been some heavy discussion on "ghost hit" and missed judgements in Redcape's DPS thread.

Since Ret Paladins have the most interest here, it would be better to have focused Ret threads than a huge megatread, so that an interested player can have discussions on those topics.

Some ideas would be:

Rawr.Ret (problem: Zurm is not focused on Ret and there are not many C# devs) focusing on Rawr
Ret Spreadsheet (already created)
List of Ret rules of thrumb in the Theorycraft Think Tank (maybe have it as a thread until it is finalized)


I am not sure what other topics there should be, but you can see one thread isn't enough.

Followup to my previous question about holy and protection. I have three questions.

1. Are the values expressed in the Pawn thread essentially for tanking only?

2. For AOE grinding would a set heavy on spell power be of value, I know not to use spell power weapons because of hammer of the righteous

3. Covering both questions above, while leveling would it be better to have two armor sets?

Definitely. I think a decent "compendium/guide/manual" would be useful for many people coming to the spec and want to get the general gist of things. A focused approach to retribution. I second the notion for a new thread like this, also I believe there has already been some recent interest expressed in Redcape's thread.

I started writing one up a while ago, perhaps I'll clean it up a bit and finish/post it later today.

Hey all

I remember back before 3.XX that there was a macro that was posted in the old paladin/warrior protection thread, which i dutifully copy pasted to count up my total avoidance parry+dodge+block+ relevant skills,

Here is the macro in question,

/run local a,b=UnitDefense("player") a = (a+b-350)/25 ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Need 102.4%% combined (miss+dodge+parry+block). Currently at %.2f%%", 5+a+ GetDodgeChance()+ GetBlockChance()+ GetParryChance()))

My question is this , is the macro unaffected by the changes made in 3.xx

And second part should it not be added to the paly prot thread for ease of refrence

I ask this here because it's a simple question that i think should have a simple answer

Thanks in advance!!

For the first part of your question, the macro should not be affected except that instead of 350 defense being the baseline point of comparison it will be 400. So "a+b-350" would instead be "a+b-400".

However, that macro was for reaching uncrushability. To my knowledge, crushing blows are not an issue any longer (as in, they don't exist anymore for boss level mobs), and so that macro is not nearly as necessary as it used to be (especially not the "need to reach 102.4%" part). Thus, that probably answers the second part of the question, ie, why it isn't discussed in detail in the prot thread.