Rawr Healadin Model - Page 10

galzohar · 04/01/09, 3:17 PM

Assuming challenging content is possible to do with no wipes, I don't see how having the gear for 0 chance (or near-0 if you can't cover some near-impossible scenarios) of wiping is not realistic.

It's just like stacking stam won't usually make you able to take an extra hit with no heals, but it will reduce the amount of healing needed in between the hits in order to survive said burst.

Endoscient · 04/01/09, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

Assuming challenging content is possible to do with no wipes, I don't see how having the gear for 0 chance (or near-0 if you can't cover some near-impossible scenarios) of wiping is not realistic.

It's just like stacking stam won't usually make you able to take an extra hit with no heals, but it will reduce the amount of healing needed in between the hits in order to survive said burst.

If you can do challenging content without wipes, then it isn't challenging anymore. Anyway if you can guarantee that your tank won't die during non-crit HL spam, then you don't want burst healing rating anymore, you want fight healing rating.

edit: I misunderstood your first point, let me rephrase. I am asserting that if you lose every single dice roll for a period of time the content isn't difficult (from your healing PoV) if you can guarantee the tank can live without using CDs.

• frmorrison · 04/02/09, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Endoscient

It is reasonable that if other things went wrong (say a cleanse resist on Steelbreaker) that a crit can save the tank on a difficult fight.

Crit heals certainly have saved the day.

Anyway, did you mean Cleanse failed in PvE? Do some of the bosses debuffs have cleanse resist?
I know Dispel and Purge (the Priest and Shaman spell to remove magic buffs) can fail to dispel a buff on a Boss due to being affected by spell hit.

Mox · 04/02/09, 10:49 AM

I'm assuming that selecting LoH self/not LoH self will change the glyph (dinvinity) performance, but shouldn't the CD of LoH be taken into account? if you're pumping out attempt after attempt while LoH is on CD then surely the beacon glyph would give better mana returns, can this be modelled at all?

Would it be possible to change the uptime of Sacred Shield too, similar to beacon uptime is atm.

galzohar · 04/02/09, 11:34 AM

You can always enable/disable LoH self / LoH glyph and see the difference in performance, and treat the results as you see fit.

Honestly, though, I don't see myself using LoH on every attempt, since you get the same mana benefit if you use it towards the end of the fight rather than at the start, so don't really need to use it on bad attempts from a mana perspective (though you could need it for the instant heal, but again likely not on every single attempt).

Endoscient · 04/02/09, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mox

I'm assuming that selecting LoH self/not LoH self will change the glyph (dinvinity) performance, but shouldn't the CD of LoH be taken into account? if you're pumping out attempt after attempt while LoH is on CD then surely the beacon glyph would give better mana returns, can this be modelled at all?

Would it be possible to change the uptime of Sacred Shield too, similar to beacon uptime is atm.

If you have Glyph of Divinity selected it will count it as 3800 mana return to yourself, if you have LoH self selected it doubles that amount. In 3.1 with its 11 min CD it is reasonable that you can use it most serious attempts of killing the boss. Time it takes to rebuff, run back, and if you wipe early sometime. The Beacon glyph is modeled in in the beta version (a new one should come out today or tomorrow), Divinity is better then it, even if you don't LoH yourself.

Yes, I have been meaning to implement a SS up time slider.

galzohar · 04/02/09, 1:58 PM

Will rawr automatically choose to not cast beacon if its efficiency is set too low?

Endoscient · 04/02/09, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

Will rawr automatically choose to not cast beacon if its efficiency is set too low?

No, how often it is cast is based purely on the uptime slider. If you want to simiulate not casting BoL, set the uptime to 0%. Efficiency slider is used to set how much of the healing you are doing can proc BoL.

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Crit heals certainly have saved the day.

Anyway, did you mean Cleanse failed in PvE? Do some of the bosses debuffs have cleanse resist?
I know Dispel and Purge (the Priest and Shaman spell to remove magic buffs) can fail to dispel a buff on a Boss due to being affected by spell hit.

I actually haven't seen it on Steelbreaker, but that can be explained by having Shirts of Uber giving me 5% hit + 4% from talents. I definitely remember on Felmyst having people get dispel resists.

Nodrak · 04/07/09, 6:51 AM

It was in 2.3 or 2.4 when they revisited the dispel system that friendly dispels got subjected to what I assume is the base 5% spell miss on equal level targets. 4% from talents and 1% aura would effectively negate this, but I have seen it happen in late-BC more then I care to like.

Endoscient · 04/14/09, 8:46 AM

Rawr 2.2 has been released! There has been a lot of cool new stuff in both Holy and the program overall since the last beta. You can download it over at Codeplex. Since we don't yet know what the official Blizzard talent calculator is going to look like, when importing from the Armory make sure you check your talent spec is accurate.

Rawr 2.2 Changes

Totally revamped Special Effect system.
- Used to model trinket procs, and other similar effects.
- All WotLK trinkets should be modelled by default.
- Extremely easy for the user to enter in there own custom effects, and have it accurately modelled.
Automatically selected default buffs when loading a character from the Armory.
Glyphs moved to being handled as a part of your talent spec.
A status bar displaying your current score, so you can always easily see the effects of different changes.
Support for all 3.1 changes.
Improved calculations display.
Support for modeling Infusion of Light.

Silmeria · 04/20/09, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by Endoscient

Rawr 2.2 Changes

A status bar displaying your current score, so you can always easily see the effects of different changes.

What exactly does a "score" mean anyway?

I've been picking/choosing various pieces of less-than-ideal itemized pieces of gear to seperate chaff from decent upgrades, but the scale on the score is kind of lost at me at this point. For example, swapping a bracer upgrade has a delta of 34 overall points, or 5139 vs 5096 Fight Healing and 3689 vs 3698 burst, which makes sense it's exchanging a crit/haste bracer for a mp5/haste bracer with increased intelligence. It's mostly the scope of the overall scores that me puzzled in this case, as I'm not entirely how sure how score is mapped.

Typically I'm shifting over to rotation breakdown to see how many more seconds I can spend holy lighting to judge my upgrades. In the above example, I'm seeing a 4-second difference in HL usage, which is pretty low-ball for me (207 seconds of HL vs 202 seconds in 6 minute fight). I see the flipping of scores when I decrease the fight length significantly (4 minutes or so), which makes sense to me.

Endoscient · 04/20/09, 4:15 PM

Fight score is the average hps you can do over the whole fight with mana limitations, and burst score is just your Holy Light hps. Both of these are scaled by the burst scale in options, are more precisely it is calculated by the following.

Fight Score = Average Fight HPS * (1 - Burst Scale)
Burst Score = Holy Light HPS * Burst Scale

Terlig · 04/21/09, 4:40 AM

Hi,

First - Divine Sacrifice. Concerns me much. Everyone knows, that damage transfered to pally is capped by 150% of his HP. I also read a lot, that if pally is using Divine Shield before Divine Sacrifice (i can't imagine atm. different usage) then cap does not work, and any 40% damage will be transfered (because pally gets 0 of this transfered damage). Is it really so? I'd say yes, because visually i see tons of damage transfered. If yes, then next question - is it intended? Or it is a kind of bug, which will be fixed one day? Personally i couldn't imagine value of this talent if it is always capped by my health ...

About Glyph of Holy Shock. I see one big advantage of taking it - it improves our mobility healing a lot.

-- sorry for puting this post in wrong topic... Please delete it, i already reposted it in Holy topic.

Avarraela · 04/21/09, 4:12 PM

I am new to Rawr and have recently started playing again after a quit a few weeks into Wrath. I'm trying to build a BIS list to see what I need to work toward to avoid replacing things with gear someone else could use when I'm ultimately searching for something better anyway. I am confused as to why Rawr is telling my to use SP enchants instead of Int enchants since through my following of the Holy paladin thread, SP is extremely subpar to int. I want to maintain the HL spam method but I simply don't have the gear for that right now for the new content. With this BIS list, will my mana problems really be solved to the point where I can replace int enchants with SP enchants? I've been to Ulduar a few times and burst seems important for me but I'm starting to think that may just be due to the fact that my gear isn't technically suitable for Ulduar. I simply feel like right now, replacing any int enchants with SP would be to my detriment since my mana issues are aplenty at this stage in my gear. Any help or advice is much appreciated. Here is my list:

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Endoscient · 04/21/09, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by Avarraela

I am new to Rawr and have recently started playing again after a quit a few weeks into Wrath. I'm trying to build a BIS list to see what I need to work toward to avoid replacing things with gear someone else could use when I'm ultimately searching for something better anyway. I am confused as to why Rawr is telling my to use SP enchants instead of Int enchants since through my following of the Holy paladin thread, SP is extremely subpar to int. I want to maintain the HL spam method but I simply don't have the gear for that right now for the new content. With this BIS list, will my mana problems really be solved to the point where I can replace int enchants with SP enchants? I've been to Ulduar a few times and burst seems important for me but I'm starting to think that may just be due to the fact that my gear isn't technically suitable for Ulduar. I simply feel like right now, replacing any int enchants with SP would be to my detriment since my mana issues are aplenty at this stage in my gear. Any help or advice is much appreciated. Here is my list:

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Int is better then SP on an item point to item point comparison. The problem is that they don't have any Int enchants that have anywhere near the same amount of items points of the sp ones. Take the 16 int and to 30 sp bracer enchant, 16 int is 16 items points, and 30 sp is 26 item points. While int is better the sp, in most gear it isn't that much better.