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Old 06/30/09, 1:52 PM   #201
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Fight Healing is how much hps you can do over the entire fight. Burst Healing is your Holy Light spam hps. Burst Scale is a factor that scales the two values.

The exact code is the following.
FightPoints = AvgHPS * (1 - BurstScale)
BurstPoints = HLHPS * BurstScale
OverallPoints = FightPoints + BurstPoints


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Old 06/30/09, 4:14 PM   #202
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Ok - I understand the formula now. But I'm having a hard time understanding what the concept behind it is. What is a good burst number vs a Fight number? At the surface I guess you could say you'd want a pure HL spam so 60% fight / 40% burst (given a 40% scaling) is optimal? I guess I'll have to think about this for a bit.

Bug report: got 2.2.8 working. It appears you have a bug in the 'other' mana category. Doesn't look like meta gems and Figurine: Sapphire Owl is getting factored into your mana pool.

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Old 06/30/09, 4:46 PM   #203
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
You want more Burst Healing when your tank is having issues living when you are spamming Holy Light on him. You want more Fight Healing if you want to maximize how much healing you can do over the entire encounter. Burst Healing is better for fights that have very specific and easy to predict phases of high tank damage, but relatively low otherwise like IC-Hard. Fight Healing is better for fights were damage is very consistent across the duration, Algalon comes to mind for that (though you also have potential issue of tank dying during Holy Light spam there).

There is no specific way on how to set the scale, just which one you feel is more valuable at the time. The two different ratings are there to compare how much fight healing you lose to gain how much burst healing (or give versa), not to provide an absolute rating.

There is some issues with parsing the procs from Armory. Just right click on the items and refresh them from Wowhead and they will work correctly.


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Old 06/30/09, 5:41 PM   #204
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Thanks - updated from Wowhead and things appear to be back to normal. I still am getting some strangeness with trinkets - Pandora's Pleas is showing up as the 3 best trinket for paladin's - Soul of the Dead and Darkmoon card above it. I tried refreshing but those stick as values. Does this make sense to you? I thought in the past it was well agreed that Pandora's pleas was hands down BIS. And to show a 90 Int trinket better than the 108 Int trinket seems strange - even considering the different type of procs they have.

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Old 06/30/09, 7:18 PM   #205
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Looking at both your character loaded from Armory and my own, it shows Pandora's Plea as BIS.


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Old 07/04/09, 9:18 AM   #206
lemort
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Dath'Remar
I've noticed that Spell Crit rates are higher on Rawr than on my character sheet by 3.36%, even outside raids with all the buffs ticked off.

So i unspecced my paladin and took off all my gear.
This gives my character 4.04% crit rating.

When i start a new character on Rawr with no gear, the crit rate is 7.40% for a naked Blood Elf.
The difference is pretty big.

Looking at WoWWiki, they estimate Spell Crit at 3.336% ignoring all gear and talent.
Spell critical strike - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Using the Int-to-Crit conversion of 166.667 and the 102 base Int for a Blood Elf gives a Crit Rate of 3.97% naked - pretty close to the 4.04% on the character sheet.

Could Rawr perhaps be double-counting the 3.336% base spell crit chance?

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Old 07/04/09, 1:29 PM   #207
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by lemort View Post
I've noticed that Spell Crit rates are higher on Rawr than on my character sheet by 3.36%, even outside raids with all the buffs ticked off.

So i unspecced my paladin and took off all my gear.
This gives my character 4.04% crit rating.

When i start a new character on Rawr with no gear, the crit rate is 7.40% for a naked Blood Elf.
The difference is pretty big.

Looking at WoWWiki, they estimate Spell Crit at 3.336% ignoring all gear and talent.
Spell critical strike - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Using the Int-to-Crit conversion of 166.667 and the 102 base Int for a Blood Elf gives a Crit Rate of 3.97% naked - pretty close to the 4.04% on the character sheet.

Could Rawr perhaps be double-counting the 3.336% base spell crit chance?
Sigh, you are exactly right. Fixed for next version.


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Old 07/11/09, 11:39 PM   #208
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Originally Posted by Endoscient View Post
Looking at both your character loaded from Armory and my own, it shows Pandora's Plea as BIS.
Sorry to have taken so long to get back to this. Work has been crazy. To recreate: Rawr 2.9, Darion from Hellscream, burst scale to 0%, Sacred shield 0%, and mana potion to 0. Go to Slot: Gear, Trinket 1. That should show:

Darkmoon at 750.14 HPS
Soul of the Dead at 729.46 HPS
Pandora's Plea at 712.93 HPS

So clear winner is Darkmoon Card: Greatness. Pandora's plea has 18 more int and ~120 SP where Darkmoon has 22.77 SP and 31.36 Crit. I believe you included a mana regeneration advantage for Darkmoon? Replenishment and Divine plea calculated with 90 extra int (300 * 30% time in operation)? That certainly tilts it toward the Darkmoon deck.

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Old 07/12/09, 4:10 PM   #209
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Darion View Post
Sorry to have taken so long to get back to this. Work has been crazy. To recreate: Rawr 2.9, Darion from Hellscream, burst scale to 0%, Sacred shield 0%, and mana potion to 0. Go to Slot: Gear, Trinket 1. That should show:

Darkmoon at 750.14 HPS
Soul of the Dead at 729.46 HPS
Pandora's Plea at 712.93 HPS

So clear winner is Darkmoon Card: Greatness. Pandora's plea has 18 more int and ~120 SP where Darkmoon has 22.77 SP and 31.36 Crit. I believe you included a mana regeneration advantage for Darkmoon? Replenishment and Divine plea calculated with 90 extra int (300 * 30% time in operation)? That certainly tilts it toward the Darkmoon deck.
Armory is down for me at the moment, but I don't really see what is wrong with the list you gave. Pandora's Plea is generally BIS, that doesn't mean though that with will all gear setups and fight parameters it is guaranteed to be the best.


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Old 07/12/09, 6:09 PM   #210
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Originally Posted by Endoscient View Post
Armory is down for me at the moment, but I don't really see what is wrong with the list you gave. Pandora's Plea is generally BIS, that doesn't mean though that with will all gear setups and fight parameters it is guaranteed to be the best.
Actually - I don't see a problem either. I hadn't bothered to do the math earlier so missed the mana regen advantages of the Darkmoon deck. I posted more for the verification that the Darkmoon was getting BIS status from mana regen and not something else I missed or a code bug.

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Old 07/20/09, 4:44 PM   #211
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Rawr 2.2.10 came out, as always you can download it from Codeplex.

Changes
  • Fixed base crit chance.


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Old 07/20/09, 7:04 PM   #212
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Does 2.2.10's 3.2 Mode include Judgement procing SoV hits?

e: Wrong thread, still got the question answered though, it does.

Last edited by frmorrison : 07/21/09 at 12:25 AM.

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Old 07/20/09, 7:38 PM   #213
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by frmorrison View Post
Does 2.2.10's 3.2 Mode include Judgement procing SoV hits?
I assume you meant this for the Retribution Model thread, but yes Retribution in 2.2.10 models Judgements proccing seals.


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Old 07/20/09, 9:08 PM   #214
EvadDeWahr
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Dragonblight
Has anyone worked out how to model General Vezax Hard mode?
Other than modifying all the gear.

So from the statement about the Retribution above I am assuming that the Holy Paladin module models SoW procs from Judgements?

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Old 07/20/09, 9:11 PM   #215
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by EvadDeWahr View Post
So from the statement about the Retribution above I am assuming that the Holy Paladin module models SoW procs from Judgements?
It doesn't yet.


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Old 07/21/09, 10:22 AM   #216
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Quick question on how Rawr models the tier bonus's. For instance - if I have 4 pieces of tier 7 and enjoy the 5% mana reduction on HL - how is that reflected in the individual pieces? When I do a comparison on shoulders for instance, Valorous are on top, is the entire 5% mana advantage used in sorting these pieces? Or just 1/4 of the 5%?

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Old 07/21/09, 2:46 PM   #217
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
In a comparison list the value of the item is the ratings of your character with that item on, minus the ratings of your character with that slot empty. So if you have exactly the set bonus, looking at a slot will include the value of the set bonus. While if you had 5/5 it would not value it in the list, since removing that item you will still retain the bonus.

Last edited by Endoscient : 07/24/09 at 5:42 PM.


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Old 08/05/09, 3:05 PM   #218
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Quick question - BoL with 3.2 is still defaulted in Rawr to 20% effectiveness. My limited testing last night (2 heroic 5 mans) suggest that it should be higher. Perhaps as good as 50%. Anyone else care to share their feel for this?

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Old 08/05/09, 3:25 PM   #219
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Yea I am going to change the defaults, just need to play/look at logs some to get a good idea at default.

The only thing that is not implemented yet in 3.2 changes is FoL/SS HoT.


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Old 08/05/09, 3:33 PM   #220
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Another one for you. I'm messing with my talent spec and glyph's. Rawr is telling me that Seal of Wisdom glyph is 2x better than Seal of Light. I believe there is a bug here. To level set. I loaded Darion from Hellscream. I touched none of the defaults and put up the Slot: Mana Usage Breakdown. Then went into Talents, switched off Glyph of Seal of Light.

Now toggle Glyph of Seal of wisdom on and off. It shows that the mana usage is ~11600 more with Glyph of Seal of Wisdom than without. I'm trying to figure out where that 11600 more mana comes from. It appears Rawr predicts ~84 HL casts with Glyph wisdom. Considering a 5% savings (58 mana per HL in my case), you get 4872 more mana. Of course in the process of using that mana (mostly on HL I suspect), you generate more mana from illumination. But no where near 11600.

Am I missing something?

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Old 08/05/09, 3:48 PM   #221
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Judging can now cause SoW procs.


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Old 08/05/09, 8:00 PM   #222
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Wooh....that's an incredible miss on Blizzard's part. Translates to 500+ Mp5 if I can spare the GCD. I haven't gone through all the forums - has Blizzard commented on fixing it?

As for Rawr, I'm assuming you are still modeling Judgements just to keep up pure? Basically every 60 sec's? If you moved that to 10 sec then it would show a pure HL spam for a long time.

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Old 08/05/09, 8:28 PM   #223
Endoscient
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Illidan
Its not an error. They changed Judgement to be considered a melee attack that can't dodge/parry, and SoW procs off all melee attacks.

There is an option now called "Maintain Judgement" if it is selected it simulates casting it every 20 seconds, otherwise it simulates every 60 seconds.


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Old 08/05/09, 10:41 PM   #224
Darion
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Hellscream
Cool - seems a bit powerful. 4% of your mana every 10-20 secs is 300-600 Mp5.

ok - did a 10 man normal Beasts. My BoL was 65% effective in the fight. Although it was the first run with the guild and we had 3 healers. So I suspect as we get experienced the overall damage will go down and my effectiveness will go down too.

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Old 08/08/09, 1:12 AM   #225
DiamondTear
Don Flamenco
 
DiamondTear's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
My rawr isn't showing any other options besides the equipped item for at least neck and cloak. It works normally for head, chest, etc. This happens on two different character xmls, healadin module.

I'm also wondering how rawr models crit and overhealing. I would assume more of crit would result in overhealing when healing the raid instead of the tank.

Diamondtear paladin 3.2 eka.xml - Windows Live

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