Redcape's Ret DPS Calculator (New edition out 04/05/09 v2.5) - Page 10

Chmur · 11/28/08, 4:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rukiia

Going back to trinkets. I picked up [Fury of the Five Flights] last night and my initial impression is disappointment. It takes a long time to stack and feels like it falls off all too easily. Yes, it will be very nice for things like patchwerk etc but overall i would say it's fairly average for a ret pally.

It's the same issue as with that Darkmoon Card (Vengeance was it?) - the theoretical boost of them is nice, but as they took helluva long to stack and tend to fall off quickly, they are good choice only for few fights. Melee usualy has to move more often than ranged people do and that makes such trinkets inferior to those proc or use based. It's nice trinket to have, without a doubt, but sticking to Nobles deck card and that badge trinket will do you better service overally imho.

Thinking of it, it might be nice dungeon trinket in case you chainpull, or trash trinket generaly - DS in larger packs should stack it faster.

Rukiia · 11/28/08, 5:20 AM

Working on that deck over the weekend. I was using [Shard of Contempt] so thought i would grab the trinket. I need to look closely but i am pretty sure it did not stack on divine storm. However i was extremely tired so i will work out what it does and does not proc off tonight.

ingen · 11/28/08, 5:24 AM

After reading about the hit thing, started paying attention while doing heroics..

Some background info:
- Had precision while leveling as prot (char hit 70 after WotLK).
- BE using a Sword, 187 Hit ~ 5.7%

In 2 heroics never saw 1 miss on white melee.. this would indicate ~3-4% ghost hit..

Guess I won't be getting Titansteel Destroyer after all! Does anyone know if other classes are experiencing anything similar?

Chmur · 11/28/08, 5:54 AM

Originally Posted by Bloodvalor

From my guilds 25-man Naxx last night. Many of us didn't have experience with Naxx at all.

Myself and our DPS Warrior are both running SoC and MoT. Here are the amount of procs all night.

Disdain (SoC) Wow Web Stats
Reflection of Torment (MoT) Wow Web Stats

You can see that the amount of SoC procs is higher than MoT. The warrior and I are about equal on the number of SoC procs. The warrior and I both had about the same amount of procs on MoT, but less than the faster attacking classes present (Rogue and Feral).

As I get more haste gear from Naxx I fully expect to get more MoT procs which will make it even better. Is it better than other trinkets out there? I can't tell you

I don't have enough trinkets to test and compare DPS with. Just sharing my experiences so far with MoT procs.

I think the issue there is stacking enough crit to upkeep the proc on every cooldown. May I ask what is your 25men raid buffed crit? I see th real output in WWS, I am interested in "chart value" too though

Katadin · 11/28/08, 6:02 AM

I swapped my shard of contempt for [Meteorite Whetstone]. 444 haste is pretty intense, and wowhead seems to think the proc rate is 15% and comments suggest 45 sec cooldown (so I'd hope for once a minute at least?). I do love Disdain though, will be hard to give up my shard

Hylo · 11/28/08, 6:08 AM

Originally Posted by Rukiia

Going back to trinkets. I picked up [Fury of the Five Flights] last night and my initial impression is disappointment. It takes a long time to stack and feels like it falls off all too easily. Yes, it will be very nice for things like patchwerk etc but overall i would say it's fairly average for a ret pally.

That's a bit pity to hear. Would the two best trinkets for retris now be [Bandit's Insignia] and the +90str version of [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]?

Rukiia · 11/28/08, 6:26 AM

I would say the card is a given, however obtaining it will be rather tricky. From what i have read the proc on [Bandit's Insignia] can crit and gains a 100% bonus. I myself cannot confirm this so when someone picks it up they will need to confirm/deny. All i keep hearing is how good [Mirror of Truth] is, but personally i like trinkets with a use effect so they can be macroed with AW.

Currently though i would have to agree with Hylo combination wise. Trinkets have and always will be situational, personally i will just try pick up a couple here and there. WoTLK has given us a nice choice and even picking two of the many available wont kill dps. Working out the "best" two is hypothetical due to the fact that trinkets are situational.

Rukiia · 11/28/08, 6:46 AM

One thing about gear selection that does bother me is expertise. If you keep the 4 set bonus and go for other strong pieces around that (strength wise) then i just cannot see how we can boost the stat. [Mark of Norgannon] is pretty nice but even then we will be lacking and thats taking what could be a very solid trinket slot.

Katadin · 11/28/08, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by Rukiia

One thing about gear selection that does bother me is expertise. If you keep the 4 set bonus and go for other strong pieces around that (strength wise) then i just cannot see how we can boost the stat. [Mark of Norgannon] is pretty nice but even then we will be lacking and thats taking what could be a very solid trinket slot.

I think for me it'll come down to a point where I have some pretty heavy +hit items and can swap a piece or two out for some expertise, but that point will be hard to juggle I imagine.

[Girdle of Razuvious]
[Wristbands of the Sentinel Huntress]
[Ruthlessness]
[Circle of Death]

They all rank quite highly, so I imagine if I see any drop and get the chance I'll probably just bank them until I can make room.

Rukiia · 11/28/08, 7:26 AM

Bah, this at time is getting frustrating. However you juggle a slot you are gonna loose ~30 hit. Even then it will not cap expertise. I think i will just leave expertise for now and assess the situation in the future; or if i feel its affecting dps. Hopefully people can leave feedback with regards to expertise, in an ideal world it wont harm the dps too much and we can stick with the rough list that people are probably aiming for at the moment.

Valerys · 11/28/08, 8:56 AM

shadowpriest.com • View topic - Hit Rating

Shadowpriests are reporting very low miss rates even when under hit cap. Could this be a more general issue not limited to ret paladins? Perhaps people playing other classes should check their miss rates as well.

EDIT: Possibly this is affecting everyone who had +hit talents before 3.0, I believe shadowpriests had one as well.

Redcape · 11/28/08, 8:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bloodvalor

13,370 melee attacks at 6.9% miss chance. There is a caveat to this though. My 2handed sword had broke at some point and I was just attacking unarmed. Would this effect my +hit chance at all? My unarmed attack skill is 399/400, so only 1 point away from max. If it did effect it in some way the 5% miss chance at around 6,000 melee attacks is still a good mark to notice.
.

Precision only worked when you had a weapon equipped if I recall correctly. I don't believe it worked on unarmed, so this would actually tend to confirm the ghost Precision theory.

On another note, I had ghost Precision working for me for a long time, but it appears to have gone away. I missed a level 80 mob with 4.5% hit from gear just yesterday.

Jourgenson · 11/28/08, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Rukiia

I would say the card is a given, however obtaining it will be rather tricky. From what i have read the proc on [Bandit's Insignia] can crit and gains a 100% bonus. I myself cannot confirm this so when someone picks it up they will need to confirm/deny. All i keep hearing is how good [Mirror of Truth] is, but personally i like trinkets with a use effect so they can be macroed with AW.
...

I'm using the [Bandit's Insignia]. It crits for 1.5x. Seems to be making up about 1.5-2% of my total dps, but I don't have a lot of data to work with yet, as I just got it this week. I'll post a screenshot of my Recount after tonight's naxx10 clear.

Edit: Regarding the Judgement bug.

This happens when the judgement debuff is already applied to the mob and your judgement does not crit. You can get around this by switching between judgement debuffs using a /castsequence Judgement of Light, Judgement of Wisdom (or whichever 2 debuffs you prefer) macro.

Musclebound · 11/28/08, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by Rukiia

Bah, this at time is getting frustrating. However you juggle a slot you are gonna loose ~30 hit. Even then it will not cap expertise. I think i will just leave expertise for now and assess the situation in the future; or if i feel its affecting dps. Hopefully people can leave feedback with regards to expertise, in an ideal world it wont harm the dps too much and we can stick with the rough list that people are probably aiming for at the moment.

When I first saw Redcape's stat rankings and noticed expertise over crit my initial thought was that it was unfortunate that crit would most likely be more common. I later found out that the best gems I could find turned out to be hit / expertise (until I "capped" at 9% before realizing I didn't have to), most of the epic rings that dropped for me had expertise on them, and it took only a few pieces to actually reach the cap. Granted I'm not quite there yet (still reporting a few dodges because I got the expertise cap confused), and I'm a human, but expertise isn't hard to come by and its taxed very well in accordance with other valuable stats on most items you'll find in Wrath.

On the topic of trinkets, I was curious to know if two proc trinkets could lock each other out, or if they have independent 45 second cool downs? I don't believe I've noticed Disdain and reflection of Torment up at the same time, although it could have happened or just hasn't been my luck to have it happen.

Bloodvalor · 11/28/08, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Musclebound

On the topic of trinkets, I was curious to know if two proc trinkets could lock each other out, or if they have independent 45 second cool downs? I don't believe I've noticed Disdain and reflection of Torment up at the same time, although it could have happened or just hasn't been my luck to have it happen.

Currently these two trinkets do not share in cooldown. I had Mirror of Truth proc and on the next melee swing Shard of Contempt proc'd.