Redcape's Ret DPS Calculator (New edition out 04/05/09 v2.5) - Page 12

Arikah · 11/29/08, 8:15 PM

I'm not sure what to make of this hit bug, but here is a sample of some large data collection. Done with expertise cap (6.5%) on a heroic training dummy, at level 80. Specced pve ret, using ret aura, 5% hit on gear, using normal rotations minus consecrate - using command to avoid killing myself with blood.

A normal judgement looks like this; all debuffs are correctly applied, the damage is dealt, and i get JotW mana return.

11/29 19:17:59.125  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,53408,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2
11/29 19:17:59.140  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,20424,"Seal of Command",0x2,686,685,2,76,0,0,nil,nil,nil
11/29 19:17:59.140  SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,20053,"Vengeance",0x1,BUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,54499,"Heart of the Crusader",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,20186,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,20467,"Judgement of Command",0x2,2588,2587,2,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,54499,"Heart of the Crusader",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_PERIODIC_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,57669,"Replenishment",0x8,14,0
11/29 19:18:00.125  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,59578,"The Art of War",0x1,BUFF
11/29 19:18:00.125  SWING_DAMAGE,0x0000000000F6F785,"Kadrok",0x518,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,491,490,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
11/29 19:18:00.437  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,61840,"Righteous Vengeance",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:18:00.437  SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,31930,"Judgements of the Wise",0x2,659,0
11/29 19:18:00.437  SPELL_PERIODIC_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,20268,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2,57,0

And this is a snippet from the log (less than a minute later, in the same gear) where judgement actually misses; the debuff is not applied, no JotW mana is awarded, no damage is dealt.

11/29 19:18:51.625  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,53408,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2
11/29 19:18:51.640  SPELL_MISSED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,53408,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2,MISS
11/29 19:18:52.843  SPELL_PERIODIC_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,57669,"Replenishment",0x8,14,0
11/29 19:18:52.843  SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,61840,"Righteous Vengeance",0x2,1,0,2,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
11/29 19:18:52.843  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,61840,"Righteous Vengeance",0x2,DEBUFF

In all of my tests, i have never seen a melee swing or strike miss with only 5% hit. I have seen multiple Judgement of Wisdom(Command) and Vindication misses. I can go back later and try a light/blood combo, but i thought this was interesting to say the least - it made me come to the conclusion that our ghost hit only applies to melee damage and strikes, but judgements for whatever reason require the actual hit cap of 9% to never miss. It may be that Judgement spells are actually considered physical ranged attacks; they do not have nearly the expected miss rate for ranged spells (17%) and can not be resisted, yet they also cannot be dodged (or parried i am assuming).

What I am saying is, if you do not have the required 295 hit, you will see some judgements miss, and because they are such a crucial part of our damage now you will suffer both on DPS and on mana return. Would anyone care to provide more data on this?

ariesz · 11/29/08, 8:46 PM

Judgement is a spell and you need 17% hit to cap on it. Is this intended? Probably not.

Arikah · 11/29/08, 8:50 PM

Originally Posted by ariesz

Judgement is a spell and you need 17% hit to cap on it. Is this intended? Probably not.

Read what i just posted above... judgement may be a spell to us (can't use while silenced, and it deals holy damage) but the game code indicates it is actually a ranged physical attack, like a hunter's shots. 9% (295 rating) is our cap.

Merovengian · 11/30/08, 1:40 AM

I think the issue with judgements is less about the ghost hit and more about random failure. If a judgement misses it should show up as such, or resist or however else it would be recorded as such being a ranged physical attack. In my current gear i have 307 +hit rating and i'm still getting the random judgement failures.

Im currently building a full +hit set, along the lines of a TGWarrior to see how close i can get to 17% and test it then, to see if it is perhaps a bugged spellhit component that went screwy when they hotfixed the 100% judgement bug.

Terryn · 11/30/08, 3:16 AM

The issue with the judgement bug is the fact that it doesn't come up as an actual "Miss" its just flat out nothing happens -_-

Chmur · 11/30/08, 4:59 AM

Thanks for the testing Arikah. It really annoys when the judgement gets lost without anything. Even simple "miss", justyfiing it's a spell, not ranged attack would be better than just disappearing of judgement.

Anyways, bought Mirror of Truth yesterday and went into Nexus to test it, here is WWS screenie of buffs gained. It's about half the instance or maybe less, i had some connection and PC troubles, so for comparison gained SotM is highlighted too.

As it is now, the trinket is totaly inferior due to it's proc rate, because the picture implies it procs once per 2 minutes. However, I am highly inclined to blame it on my sucky crit rate. I do believe that with some proper raid gear and some raid buffs it will proc more often, pushing to previously calculated passive AP.

EDIT: Just realized i provided wrong info there - I am not resealing when seal is out, more likely after every other pull or when I just feel like it, my Seal hardly goes under minute of remaining time. Sorry for that hassle.

Alarius · 11/30/08, 6:00 AM

How is the Mirror's proc rate for everyone else? I'm considering throwing down for one once I get some more badges.

Milou · 11/30/08, 6:39 AM

Originally Posted by Terryn

I'm seeing MELEE misses on bosses, not just exorcism/consecrate ticks. =/

Could you specify how you're seeing them? Watching the combat log? Using a log parser?

Terryn · 11/30/08, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Milou

Could you specify how you're seeing them? Watching the combat log? Using a log parser?

I've seen 1 miss on patchwerk come up on the blizzard combat text and 1 on thaddeus. I honestly dont know if its just a bug with the ghost hit bug or what with those mobs, but it would make sence with my REAL miss rate being about .37%. I did the combat dummy test today, and got the exact same results as everyone else, seeing a 4% ghost hit on both the boss lvl and lvl 80 training dummies.

Babathong · 11/30/08, 3:47 PM

In regards to the Mirror of Truth, it procs quite a bit even when using a two-hander. Initially, I thought I wasted 40 badges on it when I tested it out in heroics but after clearing Naxx 25 last night I realized its a must have right now. The thing procced left and right mainly due to my crit being around 40%. It was proccing off any type of crit as well. The thing is win along with the Fury of Five Flights trinket off of Sartharion-25.

This whole missed judgement thing is really starting to get annoying. Once in a while is bareable but I cant stand missing judgements with my wings popped and BL going. Its a huge dps loss and I dont understand why Blizzard hasnt even mentioned a word about it. When I miss it says nothing, it just doesnt do anything. The graphic is there, but no damage is done.

I also think Blizz is quite funny in there reasoning for nerfing ret pallies like they did. Our top dps every single night is our warrior, and its not even close. He does well over 3k dps without even trying. He literally does double the damage of some other specs. The class is broken at the moment but nothing from Blizz on it???

Milou · 11/30/08, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by Terryn

I've seen 1 miss on patchwerk come up on the blizzard combat text and 1 on thaddeus. I honestly dont know if its just a bug with the ghost hit bug or what with those mobs, but it would make sence with my REAL miss rate being about .37%. I did the combat dummy test today, and got the exact same results as everyone else, seeing a 4% ghost hit on both the boss lvl and lvl 80 training dummies.

Which is why I was curious if you had actual logs to go with it. Excorcism and Consecration will both pop up a miss the the scrolling combat text if they miss. I've seen them as well and was thrown off by it though after reviewing the logs it was in fact those two spells which missed and caused my confusion.

• Chicken · 11/30/08, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by Milou

Which is why I was curious if you had actual logs to go with it. Excorcism and Consecration will both pop up a miss the the scrolling combat text if they miss. I've seen them as well and was thrown off by it though after reviewing the logs it was in fact those two spells which missed and caused my confusion.

This is indeed correct, all abilities that miss while show up as a white colored "miss". This makes it very easy to confuse what exactly just missed.

Affection · 11/30/08, 5:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rukiia

Have you worked out your ideal set of gear? It appears everyone is slightly different, i would just like to see what other people are thinking.

Sorry to take a while to respond, weekend party time IRL.

Its to hard to tell atm, gear varies so much. Plus there are so many things you have to consider. I do know, I plan on using the 4 piece t7( 25 man ) set. The cooldown on judgement will significantly help me on long fights with mana. I tend to have mana issues when I am not taking raid damage. Also its a large dps boost.

Adding back to the enchant topic.

I was just constantly beating on the boss target dummy again, this time I managed to go all out with my physical abilites and judgements for roughly 30 minutes without my fingers going numb. There were points where the proc was up for full minutes. Yes, full minutes. The duration is 20 seconds on the proc, and within that 20 seconds, it can proc at anytime on any swing or seal. Judgement can also proc it.

The longest period of time the proc wasn't up, wasn't much at all.

While doing this test I noticed something with Grim Toll. Judgement can proc a 2nd arp effect. So if you are lucky enough to have it procced already from a melee hit and it procs from judgement, you will gain double the effects. I'm not sure if this is intended. It could be due to Judgement being considered a ranged attack maybe? ( I personally don't know so please don't use my information as fact about judgement being considered a ranged attack )

I also checked hammer of wrath later on in the night, and it too can proc Grim Toll, but it seems to have a very slight chance. Maybe I was getting bad RNG.

Anyhow, I will be doing more extensive testing on the proc and getting solid numbers. Currently I cannot find a mod or anything that will record procs. There are some, but when you currently have a buff, it thinks its only 1 proc instead of multiples when they refresh. IE WWS.

Fudder · 11/30/08, 5:41 PM

Are the numbers taking into account glyphs such as [Glyph of Seal of Command]?

Rukiia · 11/30/08, 5:52 PM

In regards to dps. Our hunter does way more than that, he is constantly 4k+ dps, even 10 man Naxx tonight was 5010 dps on Patchwerk, yes fury is strong but dont rule out other classes. Personally i am pretty happy with ret dps. So long as i can come between 4th and 8th im will not be complaining. Its tricky, but doable.