I'm sorry to appear sloppy, but I did use the search function and nothing turned up. I can see that I also made a mistake in not factoring in the spellpower that dragonfin fillet would yield based upon sheath of light. This was my first post and I really tried to take everything into consideration.

I think that overall it is probably fair to say that losing 3.5 personal dps would likely be outweighed by the benefit to the raid overall, in addition to a small benefit derived from Judgment of Light healing for a little bit more. In the end I got my answer, the difference in my dps is negligible, and it would help the raid overall.

Hey guys!

I've been lurking around this thread for a long time now and it's been pretty insightful at helping me decide some stuff. However, I'm still a little confused about some gear choices after reading the vast number of opinions here and decided to ask for advice about this matter specifically.

At the moment, I have a very huge selection of ret items, just about every good piece for each slot. I've been using a selection of 'best in slot' epics for a long time and after reading this thread, decided to try out the 4 set redemption bonus. So after using 4 pieces along with the best items for the other slots, this is what my gear looks like:

[Betrayer of Humanity]
[Obsidian Greathelm] (Bold Dragonseye)
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] (Bold Scarlet Ruby)
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] (Bold Dragonseye)
[Drape of the Deadly Foe]
[Valorous Redemption Chestpiece] (2x Bold Scarlet Rubies)
[Bracers of Unrelenting Attack] (Bold Dragonseye, Scarlet Ruby in Blacksmithing slot)
[Valorous Redemption Gauntlets] (Bold Scarlet Ruby x2, one in Blacksmithing slot)
[Girdle of Razuvious] (Bold Scarlet Ruby in Blacksmithing slot)
[Valorous Redemption Legplates] (2x Bold Scarlet Rubies)
[Melancholy Sabatons] (with Icewalker)
[Ruthlessness]
[Surge Needle Ring]
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Mirror of Truth] (will replace with [Fury of the Five Flights] if it ever drops)

With this gear setup my stats are:

1342 Strength (3737 AP)
38.02% crit
137 hit rating (4.18% hit)

Now the first glaring issue with this set is obviously the lack of +hit, the main reason I didn't want to use the 4 set bonus. 5.18% hit (I always count the draenei bonus as I make sure there's one in my group always) is just way too low even though after reading through this thread people tend to repeat the fact hit isn't as important as other stats over and over.

So here is my dilemma, which items to replace to get more +hit. As I stated, I always have a Draenei in my group and since hit isn't that important, I'm not aiming to cap it, although around 7% would be very nice.

I tinkered around with the spreadsheet and I admit, I am really horrible with it and it wound up confusing me even more.

The most obvious choices to get hit would be to either replace my boots with [Iron-Spring Jumpers]. I'd lose 12 strength but gain a whopping 73 hit rating, buffing me to 210 hit rating. I could then get the +AP enchant instead of Icewalker to gain an extra 32 AP to compensate for the loss of strength and go down to 198 hit rating, which is still a decent amount.

I was ready to switch the boots but then after reading all the 'optimal item lists' here, I noticed a lot of people swear by [Girdle of Chivalry]. If I switch my current belt for this, I'd actually gain 11 strength due to an additional socket along with +46 hit rating, but lose 74 crit rating and 38 expertise.

So basically, if I switch my boots to [Iron-Spring Jumpers] (with +AP enchant), I'll lose around 1.5% crit, have about the same AP as now (-12 str but +32 AP due to the enchant) and gain a whopping +73 hit rating. If I switch my belt to [Girdle of Chivalry], I gain 46 hit rating and +11 strength and lose 74 crit rating and 38 expertise. So after some rough calculations, the stats would be:

with belt switch

3760 AP (approx)
183 hit rating
36.40% crit
11 expertise

vs

with boots switch (+32 AP enchant instead of icewalker)

3740 AP (approx)
198 hit rating
36.58% crit
15 expertise

I know, it's a very very minor stat difference between both item switches and now I feel a bit silly for making such a gigantic post over this. But it'd still be nice to get some opinions from more mathematically capable people than me that don't totally suck at using spreadsheets.

Anyway, besides the obvious belt/boots switches, I noticed some people also prefer to use the [Valorous Redemption Helm] + [Frosted Adroit Handguards] combo. I have both these items as well so that's another combo to consider. So that's about it. Any advice and opinions on this dilemma of mine would be greatly appreciated. Major kudos in advance.

¬ cheers!

Rather than do the work for you, here's how you do it: Take the "stat differences" you mentioned and put them in the spreadsheet under the heading "Test stats". Now look to the right under "Total - Above 20%, Difference" and note down that number. Try the other stats you would lose and note the other number. Evaluate.

(Important: Make sure to adjust the stats under the "Gear" tab to your own for accurate data)

It really is a very very minor stat difference as you put it in almost all cases. Just by feel if you want to get closer to the hit cap easy (again really not necessary, but if you want to), I'd use the boots. Do NOT under any circumstances use the AP enchant over Icewalker while under the hit cap, that would be moronic.

P.S.: I wish I had your luck in loot, despite taking the month or so I was AWOL in into account stuff simply refuses to drop now ;/

Don`t forget the additional haste on the [Girdle of Chivalry]!

Haste is not a very good stat for a Ret Pala but 64 additional haste should be worth mentioning, especially with the announced haste buff for melee`s.

Personally I prefer to be as close to the hit cap as possible, in order to minimize RNG... the Girdle of Razuvius might be a little bit better on average but with such a low hit rating, everything could happen...

Yay. Thanks for the help with the spreadsheet Avitus. According to it, changing the boots gives me a 23 dps boost while changing the belt gives me an 18 dps boost. Changing both of them is just an 11 dps boost though, so I guess I'll just stick with the [Iron-Spring Jumpers] for now.

However, in the trinket spaces I only entered 90 str for the Greatness Card and the crit rating for the Mirror of Truth. Am I also supposed to enter the average str and AP gains from them and from Berserker to get a better insight?

Thanks again for the help!

Oh and best of luck with getting the gear you still need. I know how much it sucks when some items just refuse to drop. We didn't have a single [Ruthlessness] drop for 2 months and then 3 dropped in the same raid. RNG ftw!

I`m not sure if it would make a difference in this case, but entering values which are as close as possible to your real values during a bossfight should always be advised.

For DC:Greatness, the proc is worth about 100 passive strength, Mirror of Truth is about 150 passive AP and Berserker ~135 AP.

Sure it's a boost, but with the 4 piece T7 valued at 2.5-3% DPS, that change should never really be optimal. In case you're still looking for more hit, [Belt of the Tortured] is a great piece.

edit -- reading comprehension failure on my part

I didn't quite get this. Why shouldn't the change be optimal? I keep the 4 piece T7 bonus as I just switched the helm and the gloves around.

And yeah, the belt is rather nice. I'll pick it up the next time it drops to test it out.

Rereading your post, I misunderstood what you were proposing to switch out... I was wrong of course if you maintain the 4 piece bonus then all is well. This echos back to an earlier debate between those same pieces and, I believe, just reflects the different theoretical basis for the Bellator spreadsheet(s) and Rawr, which consistently shows the Obsidian Greathelm + T7 gloves as superior (I suspect it's a matter of haste vs. expertise rating weights).

What's the optimum gear you can get for 10 mans? Our guild doesn't have members do to a 25 man just yet, so we're tryin to gear ourselves as best as possible through 10 man means. Readin through the forums, best to use T7 10 man set, and Spiked Titansteel Helm.

I've searched, and found best 25 man setups, but not 10 man. So a little help?

I'm in mostly the same situation (although we've done a couple of Naxx-25s with friendly guilds where i've picked up a few items), and generally found that the best 10-man only setup [plate-only] is Spiked Titansteel Helm, T7-10 4pc, Vengeance Bindings (yes, the crafted blues - the bracers from Faerlina in Naxx-10 that i can't remember the name of are a stam upgrade, but a small downgrade dps-wise), Flame-Bathed Steel Girdle, Death-Inured Sabatons, Cloak of Mastery, the Malygos-10 quest neck, Circle of Death and Surge Needle Ring, Mirror of Truth and DMC:Greatness, the Venture Co. Libram, and either Black Ice or Death's Bite.

There are a few other items worth considering for your bracer/belt slot, if you're happy wearing leather - the emblem of heroism leather belt, the wyrmrest accord rep bracers, and i think the leather bracers from Heigan.

It's mostly what I've come up with as well. I've used this site and maxdps.com for what an item will be an upgrade for me. But I've had the same thoughts on what gear I should get. Though I've traded my Vengence bindings and I'm short on HR. I've had to gem my T7 chest with HR on it to make up for it. But as I get my last T7 piece, and do more 10 mans, hopefully I can replace most of my gear, then head to 25 mans.

Thanks a lot dude for your information, if I could give you props in game, I would.

A possibly helpful link. That's the Redcape values plugged into LootRank and filtered for 10-man loot and realistic craftables only. It does include the BOE epics from Naxx-25 and I wouldn't take it as 100% gospel anyway, but for compiling a shopping list it's not the worst place to start.

I feel your pain, the only time our guild has seen a Betrayer of Humanity drop was a night had to work.Ten Kel'thuzads later and I'm still whiffing Death's Bite.

You could also try the valorous badge boots if you need hit, or use the Spiked Titansteel Helm.

W/ the new weightings of v2.3, is it safe to say T7 Helm + Crude Discolored/Frosted Adroit pull ahead of the Obsidian Greathelm + T7 Gloves combo by quite a large margin? Assuming all that hit is actually utilized, anyway. Or is there something I'm not seeing...?

I understand that the new libram from arena is currently the best in slot. I probably will not be able to attain this until ulduar. Now my question is about the old lvl 70 badge libram "Libram of Divine Judgement". On bosses were I use SoC for the benefit of my healers/raid. Would this old libram be better? The new SoC libram attained through badges seems to not procc hardly at all. However on a test dummy with the libram of divine judgement it seemed to procc all the time. 200 attack power is definetly nice and I am not good with math so I thought I would make this post and see what the professionals thought =).

thanks!

What makes the [Libram of Divine Judgement] superior is its high uptime (proc chance around 40%). The new badge libram is much worse with an assumed proc chance of <20%.

In fact the bonus granted from each one is not so far off:
200 AP * 73= 14600
173 Crit * 87= 15051

Edit: wrong post, sorry.

I think the damage difference is probably very minor. I have Heroes Hands and running that with 3 other pieces of Valorous and the Obsidian Greathelm (all of which I have), Vs. running Valor helm and Frosted Adroit Handguards (which I dont' have) is only a 15 dps difference, and I think the 25 man hands were worth about 15 dps. Your mileage may vary, but for me the answer was that I'm best off running the OGreathelm and 4/4, and saving my spot on our loot reel (a taking turns rather than DKP type of system) until Betrayer drops, because that is an over 100 dps upgrade.

Using the spreadsheet, i'm still noticing DPS increases up until 446 Hit Rating. Is something wrong here, or does this signify that a lot more of our DPS than i thought is coming from spell-hit affected stats?

Exorcism, Holy Wrath, and Consecration are all based on spell hit. Therefore, it's completely expected that hit rating will still have some DPS contribution up to 446, it's just that the value of the stat drops off severely once you reach melee hit cap.