Redcape's Ret DPS Calculator (New edition out 04/05/09 v2.5) - Page 2

Rasputin · 11/19/08, 2:48 PM

Our best options have been leather in many slots for quite some time. This is a long-standing issue that had a lot of griping devoted to it on the beta forums with no response. Leather will sometimes be the best for us, and the developers appear to think that's completely fine. Whether I'd prefer to wear plate because I'm a rp-nerd and it smooths loot distribution within my raid is irrelevant as is any other consideration. Leather and mail will sometimes be best, take it or don't.

Bloodvalor · 11/19/08, 3:03 PM

Originally Posted by inksy

I have been following Ret dps for a couple months now but am still a bit fuzzy on one subject, hit/exp cap. Obviously strength is weighted far more than any other stat, but is there any focus on actually hitting a cap or should we just take whatever hit/exp comes on our gear until that point all the while gemming and enchanting for strength? I am mostly concerned with the effect missed judgments will have on our mana.

Edited for clarity

I'm most interested in this as well. I might run some of my own tests, but I haven't done that before. What's the mod I see some of the normal and experienced testers use that I've seen pictures of that show them a pie chart with information on their attacks ect...

Chriz · 11/19/08, 3:17 PM

That mod would be Recount.

Recount --> Curse

• frmorrison · 11/19/08, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bloodvalor

Does it bother anyone else that the #1 option are leather boots? 2-5 are plate, but then look at #6 the Boots of Neverending Path. WOW. An ilvl 200 item acquired through reputation grind. Can this really be possible? The ilvl 200 plate boots you can get from reputation grind are down at #11 the Death-Inured Sabatons.

Atm some leather/mail is better than plate. However, I believe Blizzard will use better itemization on plate once T8 and T9 comes out (less haste/armor pen, more other stuff) to remove that issue.

Quozzy · 11/19/08, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by Alarius

Perhaps include the weighted weapon speed as discussed above.

Since the weight discussed above by Quozzy is based on some of his gear plug-ins, would it be possible to create one based on a more generic value?

Edit: Also, I've noticed that when 30240 is plugged into weapon speed on Wowhead the value is adjusted to 30.24, would this be a bug with the way Wowhead uses values?

I redid the math for Redcape's values, and came out with a value for speed: 29819. I checked out the wowhead page, and couldn't work out what was happening there, not sure why it changes any value you input.

I personally use Lootrank, I rounded all the values to 1dp to make it work.

eMagdAeH · 11/19/08, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Redcape

*snip*
SoB/SoM are the best seals. If you cannot risk the damage SoC is in second place even without a Glyph, though if you find 5 points for SotP then SoR becomes pretty reasonable.

The best Glyph setup is CS, Judgement, Consecration. When you are running SoB in a raid situation you should have so much mana you don't know what to do with it all.

*snip*

I had a quick question, that I'm not sure how to map out for testing...mostly because I suck at math. Is there enough mana to drop the CS Glpyh for SoComm Glyph? Part 2: is there enough instances where SoB/M can't be used to make that switch worthwhile?

Redcape · 11/19/08, 7:09 PM

Originally Posted by inksy

I have been following Ret dps for a couple months now but am still a bit fuzzy on one subject, hit/exp cap. Obviously strength is weighted far more than any other stat, but is there any focus on actually hitting a cap or should we just take whatever hit/exp comes on our gear until that point all the while gemming and enchanting for strength? I am mostly concerned with the effect missed judgments will have on our mana.

Edited for clarity

Missing Judgements is a concern. While hit/exp is worse than str for pure dps, missing a few Judgements back to back would be really bad, which elevates hit some. How much is a more difficult question to answer though. I think you would not go wrong gemming hit in yellow sockets until capped, but the amount of hit on our gear seems really, really high so it may not be much of a concern in the end.

Originally Posted by eMagdAeH

I had a quick question, that I'm not sure how to map out for testing...mostly because I suck at math. Is there enough mana to drop the CS Glpyh for SoComm Glyph? Part 2: is there enough instances where SoB/M can't be used to make that switch worthwhile?

That depends on the fight and on your raid. If you get BoW and a Mana Spring totem your mana will be much better, but if you lack those things your mana will be a much bigger concern. Also you should consider that when you drop SoB/SoM for Command your mana situation gets a LOT worse because you get much less SA mana, so the CS Glyph might be key there too.

You are going to have to evaluate your particular raid and group setup in the context of the fights you are currently doing that matter to answer that properly.

Valerys · 11/20/08, 3:37 AM

On the subject of gemming, has anyone found yet where does the design for Etched Monarch Topaz come from? It's not on the Dalaran design vendor and does not show as a drop on Wowhead.

Kirth · 11/20/08, 8:11 AM

Might was to look at the Engineering trinkets in your spreadsheet. Sonic Amplifier is its name I think (can't access wowhead at work so no link, sorry). it has a 1 minute internal cooldown, but it seems to proc not off weapon swing but has a chance while you are in combat.

Voldin · 11/20/08, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Milou

This question is more in relation Rawr but relevant here, rawr is giving ArP very very high value when I setup all my raid buffs (very low otherwise, sunder et all would affect that greatly of course). Is that taken into account with your numbers?

Also do you have numbers on tbc/wotlk meta gems? Debating between Titan's Outlook and T7.

The reason that RAWR returns a seemingly high value for armor pen is that RAWR values stats based on the itemization cost to add them. 1 itemization point returns 6.67 armor penetration. 1 single ArP point isn't worth much at all, but compare Redcape's numbers to the RAWR numbers where you normalize by item points and 7 ArP should be pretty close to the number you're getting from RAWR.

Peryle · 11/20/08, 4:06 PM

Based on Redcape's numbers which seem solid, here's a guide to pre-raid gearing. Each piece is best in slot considered in a vacuum (i.e. value of hit is 0 once capped, you'll have to figure that out) and I'm assuming you keep trinkets on cooldown. You should consider getting Trinket Menu, which automagically swaps click trinkets in/out when they are on CD. All items can be obtained without Honor or a specific profession; all gem slots are assumed to be [Bold Scarlet Ruby], and if there is a profession specific item in slot that is superior that is noted.

Back
[Cloak of Bloodied Waters] - Gun'Drak, Trash Drop

Chest
[Breastplate of Undeath] - Drak'Tharon Keep Heroic, Novos the Summoner

Feet
[Boots of the Neverending Path] - Argent Crusade, Exalted

Finger
[Ring of Scarlet Shadows] - Jewelcrafting
[Band of the Kirin Tor] - Lots of Gold
[Hemorrhaging Circle] - Gun'Drak Heroic, Gal'darah

Hands
[Gilt-Edged Leather Gauntlets] - Utgarde Pinnacle Heroic, King Ymiron

Head
[Spiked Titansteel Helm] - Blacksmithing
[Planetary Helm] - Halls of Lightning Heroic, Loken

Legs
[Staggering Legplates] - Utgarde Keep Heroic, Ingvar the Plunderer

Libram
[Venture Co. Libram of Retribution] - Venture Coin (30)

Neck
[Pendant of the Outcast Hero] - Emblem of Heroism (25)

Shoulder
[Spaulders of the Careless Thief] - The Nexus Heroic, Grand Magus Telestra

Trinket
[Incisor Fragment] - Drak'Tharon Keep Heroic, King Dred
[Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood] - The Nexus Heroic - Keristrasza
[Crusader's Locket] - Icecrown Quest, Defending the Vanguard

JC: [Figurine - Emerald Boar] with Bold Scarlet Rubies is best available; if you don't like clicking, next best is [Figurine - Twilight Serpent] with Bold Scarlet Rubies.

Alch: [Mighty Alchemist's Stone] is very strong, best non-click trinket after the Emerald Boar.

Waist
[Jorach's Crocolisk Skin Belt] - Emblem of Heroism (40)

Weapon
[Titansteel Destroyer] - Blacksmithing
[Runeblade of Demonstrable Power] - Knights of the Ebon Blade, Revered

Wrist
[Vengeance Bindings] - Blacksmithing

Alarius · 11/20/08, 4:47 PM

Originally Posted by Quozzy

I redid the math for Redcape's values, and came out with a value for speed: 29819. I checked out the wowhead page, and couldn't work out what was happening there, not sure why it changes any value you input.

I personally use Lootrank, I rounded all the values to 1dp to make it work.

Is that scored based off of your armor values like the last one or are they based off of Redcape's defaults?

Also, what was the formula you used?

Quozzy · 11/20/08, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Alarius

Is that scored based off of your armor values like the last one or are they based off of Redcape's defaults?

Also, what was the formula you used?

Based off of Redcape's defaults, as to a formula, I fiddled with the spreadsheet to see how much strength it would take to get the same difference in dps as changing the weapon speed by 0.1s. Then you multiply that value by 10 to equate it to 1s speed, finally multiply by the value assigned to strength which was 168.09

Usernaem · 11/20/08, 11:55 PM

To whomever was talking about hit rating and couldn't find it, I believe we need 295 to be capped at 80 (if my math doesn't fail me)

EDIT: At least that would hold the 9% wisdom at level 80, I believe. Unless it's 12% then it would be 393 HR.

Alarius · 11/21/08, 3:08 AM

Originally Posted by Quozzy

Based off of Redcape's defaults, as to a formula, I fiddled with the spreadsheet to see how much strength it would take to get the same difference in dps as changing the weapon speed by 0.1s. Then you multiply that value by 10 to equate it to 1s speed, finally multiply by the value assigned to strength which was 168.09

Thank you sir, much appreciated. I think I'll go plug that value into my Pawn in-game and see how things work out.