Peryle

Based on Redcape's numbers which seem solid, here's a guide to pre-raid gearing. Each piece is best in slot considered in a vacuum (i.e. value of hit is 0 once capped, you'll have to figure that out) and I'm assuming you keep trinkets on cooldown. You should consider getting Trinket Menu, which automagically swaps click trinkets in/out when they are on CD. All items can be obtained without Honor or a specific profession; all gem slots are assumed to be [Bold Scarlet Ruby], and if there is a profession specific item in slot that is superior that is noted.

Back
[Cloak of Bloodied Waters] - Gun'Drak, Trash Drop

Chest
[Breastplate of Undeath] - Drak'Tharon Keep Heroic, Novos the Summoner

Feet
[Boots of the Neverending Path] - Argent Crusade, Exalted

Finger
[Ring of Scarlet Shadows] - Jewelcrafting
[Band of the Kirin Tor] - Lots of Gold
[Hemorrhaging Circle] - Gun'Drak Heroic, Gal'darah

Hands
[Gilt-Edged Leather Gauntlets] - Utgarde Pinnacle Heroic, King Ymiron

Head
[Spiked Titansteel Helm] - Blacksmithing
[Planetary Helm] - Halls of Lightning Heroic, Loken

Legs
[Staggering Legplates] - Utgarde Keep Heroic, Ingvar the Plunderer

Libram
[Venture Co. Libram of Retribution] - Venture Coin (30)

Neck
[Pendant of the Outcast Hero] - Emblem of Heroism (25)

Shoulder
[Spaulders of the Careless Thief] - The Nexus Heroic, Grand Magus Telestra

Trinket
[Incisor Fragment] - Drak'Tharon Keep Heroic, King Dred
[Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood] - The Nexus Heroic - Keristrasza
[Crusader's Locket] - Icecrown Quest, Defending the Vanguard

JC: [Figurine - Emerald Boar] with Bold Scarlet Rubies is best available; if you don't like clicking, next best is [Figurine - Twilight Serpent] with Bold Scarlet Rubies.

Alch: [Mighty Alchemist's Stone] is very strong, best non-click trinket after the Emerald Boar.

Waist
[Jorach's Crocolisk Skin Belt] - Emblem of Heroism (40)

Weapon
[Titansteel Destroyer] - Blacksmithing
[Runeblade of Demonstrable Power] - Knights of the Ebon Blade, Revered

Wrist
[Vengeance Bindings] - Blacksmithing

 

Alarius

Is that scored based off of your armor values like the last one or are they based off of Redcape's defaults?

Also, what was the formula you used?

 

Quozzy

Based off of Redcape's defaults, as to a formula, I fiddled with the spreadsheet to see how much strength it would take to get the same difference in dps as changing the weapon speed by 0.1s. Then you multiply that value by 10 to equate it to 1s speed, finally multiply by the value assigned to strength which was 168.09

 

Usernaem

To whomever was talking about hit rating and couldn't find it, I believe we need 295 to be capped at 80 (if my math doesn't fail me)

EDIT: At least that would hold the 9% wisdom at level 80, I believe. Unless it's 12% then it would be 393 HR.

 

Alarius

Thank you sir, much appreciated. I think I'll go plug that value into my Pawn in-game and see how things work out.

 

Vertego

Is there a reason not to use Glyph of Seal of Blood instead of something like Glyph of Crusader Strike? I think overall mana gain would be better than mana reduction on a single swing. Just a though.

 

Hythloday

Nice list, but for trinkets, [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] is almost certainly best-in-slot (90 strength equip and then an averaged 100 strength proc). In fact given how good strength is for us I can't see replacing that for a long long time.

 

Blutelf

Peryle, how about adding the [Mirror of Truth] to the trinket list? I believe it to be fairly comparable with the others after fiddling a bit with the proc rate assumptions and it certainly is easy to get with only 40 badges.

EDIT: Also, the Darkmoon Card is certainly very good, but you'd run into trouble with the assumption that it may be readily available and thus it's probably safe to mention the easily-gotten alternatives like Peryle did.

 

Nefarium

EDIT: Nvm, seems there's random cards as rewards O.o
You would indeed be correct, then.

 

glooba

The glyph is multiplicative, so increased by 10% simply means you get 11% mana from SA. The glyph of SA would be better as it is an additive 2%, and it doesn't have a restriction (SoB/SoM has to be up). Paladin base mana at 80 is around 4300 I think? I can't currently check but that'd equate to around 60MP5 with glyph of CS so you'd pretty much needed to be healed at least 6000 every 5 seconds to equal it (Given that you CS every cooldown with zero latency).

 

zenos

I'm seeing [Sword of Justice] as a clear winner over either due to speed and/or weapon range? Did you conisder this? In fact, the weapon speed bumps it above a few higher item level weapons.

 

Bloodvalor

According to my numbers as well Sword of Justice is a clear winner over Runeblade of Demonstrable Power. I just got my Sword of Justice last night and it owns. My DPS went up quite a bit from the Runeblade.

 

Peryle

It is amazing. My understanding is that you get a random card, and not the choice that you got on the beta. If this is not the case, I'll change the list because there is nothing better in game.

The crit is relatively low in value. I don't have details on the proc rate and its value scales with crit. This is difficult to model.

I did not. I didn't consider weapon speed when throwing this together; I've seen some numbers tossed around for values (~30DPS/.1 speed if I recall correctly) and if we feel this is an accurate approximation, I'll go ahead and update the list.

 

Leonti

So you're stacking over 300 melee hit and wearing mainly leather, by simply using numbers on a list. Good example for not always using the best in slot item, driven by damage stats.
I would be more interested in serious compilations, whats about using Rawr? Are its numbers up to Redcape ones? This would be a better way to compare and assemble achievable items for a real pre-raiding gear. (Every new drop is actually giving me a headache.) My first impression trying this is that there are to much items with realy big melee hit points on it, which are hard to combine, without hitting the top.

Leonti - "Klein, fein und gemein."
Proud Member of Kavar Grunas Bar

Celeon - Armory Link
Leonti - Armory Link

 

Peryle

Oh I agree. This is a list of "best in slot" items that are easily obtainable - you'll be replacing this out with Naxx stuff really quickly. I was more interested in getting a rough framework out there that can be improved on by myself and others - but without a starting point, we get no where.

One good example is that [Death-Inured Sabatons] is going to replace [Boots of the Neverending Path] once you're hit capped. I'm willing to start juggling stat values so that hit is devalued once you hit 295 (as it should be), but getting the starting point out there was my primary concern.

tldr: Try contributing instead of complaining that I didn't do all the work for you.

 

Merovengian

Libram
[Venture Co. Libram of Retribution] - Venture Coin (30)

Why does everyone keep putting this libram up as the 'best in slot' item.... its retarded.

Assuming a normal Judge/cs/ds rotation, 5-7 seconds of the crit bonus is wasted in ability cooldown.


[Libram of Furious Blows]
[Libram of Furious Blows]

This seems much more streamlined for soloing or grouping. The only advantage i see from the Venture Co libram would be if you started opening with DS, which:

1. Wastes the free healing you get if youre running blood.
2. Can get you killed in an instance on a multi mob pull with a slow reacting tank.
3. Just feels wrong.

 

Blutelf

Consider that 8s Judgement loops around into the last second of the buff, especially so with the -1s T7 bonus. This gives you exactly the same amount of triggered abilities affected by the crit buff, and possibly one more auto attack + SoB proc.

You do not have to switch your rotation for that to happen, and even if you do I am not sure it will change anything. The libram should still only affect JoB and CS once.

 

Aramul

This is not about soloing or small groups. This is about sustained dps against raid bosses. The Venture Co. Libram not only gives more crit rating, but also has a higher uptime as long as you cast Divine Storm at least every 12.8 seconds. More crit + higher uptime = more dps.

 

gezmodean

I've been using Pawn for a while to test the equivalence theory posted here, but haven't seen a lot of pawn strings being dropped. I think its a powerful tool to empirically test the numbers we throw out here without requiring a lot of extra spreadsheet work to prove out.

So based on the last version of the spreadsheet posted, here are the pawn strings:

( Pawn: v1: "Redcape DPS - SoR": ArmorPenetration=37.34, CritRating=52.74, Dps=328.26, Strength=155.09, Agility=49.41, HasteRating=39.88, ExpertiseRating=59.67, SpellPower=34.18, HitRating=99.73, Ap=61.32 )

( Pawn: v1: "Redcape DPS - SoV": ArmorPenetration=37.34, CritRating=53.46, Dps=328.26, Strength=149.96, Agility=50.11, HasteRating=29.34, ExpertiseRating=40.53, SpellPower=25.88, HitRating=81.10, Ap=59.30 )

( Pawn: v1: "Redcape DPS - SoB": ArmorPenetration=37.34, CritRating=73.56, Dps=528.1, Strength=168.09, Agility=69.6, HasteRating=41.78, ExpertiseRating=41.78, SpellPower=21.95, HitRating=126.59, Ap=66.36 )

( Pawn: v1: "Redcape DPS - SoC": ArmorPenetration=37.34, CritRating=64.08, Dps=470.05, Strength=147.21, Agility=60.41, HasteRating=37.47, ExpertiseRating=67.58, SpellPower=18.48, HitRating=112.05, Ap=58.21 )

As an aside, since I haven't made enough posts, if someone were willing to make a pawn strings thread in the paladin class mechanics section, I think we could make a fair number of useful posts there that could make for some very useful strings.

 

Alarius

I would like to second the Pawn strings thread. Pawn is so incredibly helpful. Thank you for those strings gez.

 

Musclebound

Consider that the Venture Co. libram has more up-time and a greater critical bonus. No, you wouldn't open with Divine Storm, but once you have used it the bonus lasts slightly longer and there is only two seconds where it isn't up between casts (ideally). Also if you think about it, the Furious Blows libram doesn't allow for the Judgement spell itself to benefit from the crit bonus since the Judgement is what activates it. Assuming you have Fanaticism, the Venture Co. Libram maximizes your chance of landing Righteous Vengeance.

All in all, Librams are pretty lackluster in this expansion, but in some ways they always have been. Hybrids lose out on their ranged slots. I'm not entirely sure myself which one is clearly better, but at the moment I see more potential gain from the venture Co. Libram of Retribution.

 

Nefarium

I think it's important to make the distinction between solo and instances/raids.

For soloing, the [Libram of Furious Blows] wins because Divine Storm is usually a finisher, if you even use it at all. Of course discounting elites you encounter in the levelling process.

For the remaining cases, [Venture Co. Libram of Retribution] wins because mobs usually stays alive long enough for even a second Divine Storm, thus justifying the shift in crit bonus.


So I'd say you both are correct.
Pick up the [Venture Co. Libram of Retribution] while levelling in Grizzy Hills, and switch to it when you're going into instances.

 

Original Look

As far as I can see the Greatness card is +90 Agility, not strength?

 

Chmur

This trinket actually comes in 4 versions, for each stat mentioned in the "proc" tooltip. So there is 90STR base and 300STR on proc version of this, which makes it very good trinket for us indeed.

 

Rukiia

[Fury of the Five Flights] Drops from heroic Sartharion. In theory it becomes a passive 320 AP, rather nifty.