I picked it up in my first heroic run and equipped it as a bargain for actually getting the item and am starting to feel like I should have just sold it for at least 10k gold.
Last edited by MarshallX : 11/25/08 at 10:40 AM.
Everything cleaves. And their cleaves cleave. And those cleaves thunderclap. These thunderclaps deathcoil.
Yep you are correct; its pretty close, but the original posted two are the winners. Add the fact that the boots are only 40 emblems it makes collecting this set that little bit easier.
I just updated mine post with dps conversion according to Redcape. And still think the cost for the dps difference is rather insane for low tier weapon.
Well the sword is still item level 213 and i will most likely only replace with the KT 25 man axe, and that time is unknown. I guess overall the difference in dps for the two enchants will be rather small, but again i have no maths to back this theory up.
Yep you are correct; its pretty close, but the original posted two are the winners. Add the fact that the boots are only 40 emblems it makes collecting this set that little bit easier.
Emblems of Valor remember, not THAT easy (just takes longer).
There is probably a better list we could come up with, but the list I posted was so we could make use of the 4pc bonus and was mainly sticking to "our" plate items and ignoring leather/mail, as well as including badge loot where possible.
Emblems of Valor remember, not THAT easy (just takes longer).
There is probably a better list we could come up with, but the list I posted was so we could make use of the 4pc bonus and was mainly sticking to "our" plate items and ignoring leather/mail, as well as including badge loot where possible.
Well its only 40 emblems. That's just 2 resets, but ok; not one nights work. As for the set bonus idea, someone will have the math to see if the bonus is overall better than the random pieces.
Well its only 40 emblems. That's just 2 resets, but ok; not one nights work. As for the set bonus idea, someone will have the math to see if the bonus is overall better than the random pieces.
I guess the point for this set bonus is, that it brings you mana because it lowers the cooldown of one of our most important manaregain talents Judgements of the Wise. As far as I experienced in Naxxramas there unfortunately are encounter in which we need every single point of mana we can get, of course without wearing int or mp5 Gear.
Well the sword is still item level 213 and i will most likely only replace with the KT 25 man axe, and that time is unknown. I guess overall the difference in dps for the two enchants will be rather small, but again i have no maths to back this theory up.
I'd go for Massacre if I were you. I don't think it is really needed to max out in T7 farm stage. For example, I am considering taking that KT axe on it's third drop (which may never happen), passing first two to our TG Fury warrior. It's vastly superior to everything else, but then again, it will be on par with T8 weapons. Back to enchant though - yeah, when T8 hits us, when banks are filled with enchanting mats, then I will go for Berserking, to max out before new content exploration.
Edit based on posts in this thread testing Berserking:
Based on at least anecdotal evidence in this thread, Berserking can chain-proc, has no internal cooldown, etc.
Let's figure out the necessary up-time to beat Massacre.
400 AP * x% = 110 AP
x% = 110/400
x = .275
As long as Berserking is up more than 27.5% of the time, it is better than Massacre.
Even if it has 1 Proc Per Minute (not matching current anecdotal evidence) that's 20 seconds in 60. Or 33% up time.
I think we have a VERY clear winner.
My personal opinion is use Greater Savagery (cheap mats) and jump straight to Berserking when you think your weapon is worth the cost of the mats. Abyss Crystals will surely devalue as time passes.
Last edited by Exemplar : 12/01/08 at 1:29 PM.
Reason: New data on Berserking
This trinket is potentially very good, but situational. The stacking time is not insignificant and 10 seconds is not long. On a tanknspank with no downtime it seems very strong, but on any fight with breaks or downtime it is going to be weak. Certainly a good item to collect, but you would want something more reliable to swap in for it. The ideal would be a clicky trinket, because those are amazing on fights with breaks and movement, sort of the opposite of this card.
I found "use" trinkets sort of a hassle for my rotation, as I'm focusing on keeping each attack on cool down in addition to Divine Plea and whatever other things I have to pay attention to (Thaddius for example, had me very scatter-brained and most of the attempts had me holding back just so I could get the positioning down). While Shard of Contempt isn't the ideal level 80 trinket, it serves to free up my rotation. However in the past I've macroed my Avenging Wrath with whatever "use" trinket I've had equipped and it seemed to have positive results.
One thing I'm still testing is when to use Divine Plea; at first I was using it whenever I'd dropped down to 75% mana, but recently I've been activating it after my first rotation to get the cool down started for when I need it next.
Originally Posted by moby3012
I guess the point for this set bonus is, that it brings you mana because it lowers the cooldown of one of our most important manaregain talents Judgements of the Wise. As far as I experienced in Naxxramas there unfortunately are encounter in which we need every single point of mana we can get, of course without wearing int or mp5 Gear.
Loatheb is one fight I can think of where mana was an issue, particularly because I wasn't being healed for Martyr recoils. Another off the top of my head may be Patchwerk for, again, lack of returns from Spiritual Attunement due to lack of heals. I believe the two pieces of Valorous Redemption with Hit on them are the Helm and Shoulders, so you could dump the Spiked Titansteel Helm for that instead in order to pick up the Four piece bonus.
Last edited by Musclebound : 11/25/08 at 12:57 PM.
For on use trinket, one thing you can do is macro-tie it to your Avenging Wrath to get the most use out of it. Most trinkets are on a 2 minute cooldown, and their use doesn't cycle the GCD, so the cooldowns match up. You could also macro it to your Crusader Strike / Judgement or Divine Storm, and get the DPS boost initially. Regardless, tying the trinket into your rotation via macro is a great way to make use out of them.
Whether the extra mats are worth enchanting a "low end" epic is up to you to decide.
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, i did not say that the sword was "low end" i only raised this discussion to see what the best enchant actually was.
This is my list I've come up with. I first looked at all the pieces of T7 and compared them via Redcape's weights. The gloves come out the worst of all five pieces. So that made me choose T7 Helm, Shoulders, Chest and Legs. I then compared each other armor slot based on what gave the most +hit and what was the next best (all based on Redcape's weights) that did not have any +hit. I took the difference into consideration on what slots to fill up with +hit first. This is what I came up with. This is focused on getting HIT capped with 4 piece T7.
All gems are currently only RARE quality as EPICS are not in the game yet.
I grabbed the Mirror of Truth and the Fury of the Five Flights trinkets last night. I replaced the shard of contempt with the fury and saw that I was dropping in dps by a big margin. I think its because I am not hit capped and losing the extra expertise really hurt me. Once hit capped, Fury should be pretty nice.
As for the Mirror, I am not impressed. All the spreadsheets imply that its the best trinket in game right now. I am having doubts seeing that its proc rate is horrible for a ret pally. I originally thought that our judgements, DS, and CS would trigger the proc, making the proc rate similar to that of a rogue. The two rogues that have this trinket in my guild say they love it, but the thing wouldnt proc for nothing last night.
Not sure whats up with it, but I was dissapointed to have spent my first 40 badges on it.
Why is it that I see most pallies hovering around 180 hit rating when our cap is actually 100 higher than that?
Because as of right now you'll cap at around 170, haven't tested for the specific number but I've been raiding quite a bit with 176 hit and show no misses in any log reports.
I would love to know solid details on this, from a blue, because it would be silly to get anymore hit at this point but irresponsible to not prepare for 296 hit.
Why is it that I see most pallies hovering around 180 hit rating when our cap is actually 100 higher than that?
Some Pallys have still have the 3-4% ghost hit. I had 1% ghost hit a few days ago and used to have 4% ghost hit.
A note on metagems, the 21 agility one requires 1 red/yellow/blue, while the 21 crit one requires 2 blue.
21 crit > 21 agility, however I think 1 yellow (with a likely set bonus) is better than another blue gem. A JC doesn't need to worry about this though.
I grabbed the Mirror of Truth and the Fury of the Five Flights trinkets last night. I replaced the shard of contempt with the fury and saw that I was dropping in dps by a big margin. I think its because I am not hit capped and losing the extra expertise really hurt me. Once hit capped, Fury should be pretty nice.
As for the Mirror, I am not impressed. All the spreadsheets imply that its the best trinket in game right now. I am having doubts seeing that its proc rate is horrible for a ret pally. I originally thought that our judgements, DS, and CS would trigger the proc, making the proc rate similar to that of a rogue. The two rogues that have this trinket in my guild say they love it, but the thing wouldnt proc for nothing last night.
Not sure whats up with it, but I was dissapointed to have spent my first 40 badges on it.
From my guilds 25-man Naxx last night. Many of us didn't have experience with Naxx at all.
Myself and our DPS Warrior are both running SoC and MoT. Here are the amount of procs all night.
You can see that the amount of SoC procs is higher than MoT. The warrior and I are about equal on the number of SoC procs. The warrior and I both had about the same amount of procs on MoT, but less than the faster attacking classes present (Rogue and Feral).
As I get more haste gear from Naxx I fully expect to get more MoT procs which will make it even better. Is it better than other trinkets out there? I can't tell you I don't have enough trinkets to test and compare DPS with. Just sharing my experiences so far with MoT procs.
Because as of right now you'll cap at around 170, haven't tested for the specific number but I've been raiding quite a bit with 176 hit and show no misses in any log reports.
I would love to know solid details on this, from a blue, because it would be silly to get anymore hit at this point but irresponsible to not prepare for 296 hit.
Do you know if anyone has run a solid test with +hit on the target dummies in Org? If they are still even there. I haven't checked, I'm such a noob
I also have to wonder if this ghost hit isn't something zone specific. Remember how in Sunwell there was a debuff that took away avoidance from tanks? I wonder if there is a zone wide buff that is adding +hit to everyone in the raid for some reason. Maybe that could explain how some people are reporting a 1% ghost and others a 3-4% ghost ?
Well it appears that some of the ghost hit is still there. I just finished auto attacking the heroic training dummy for about an hour and a half with 180 hit (5.49%) and I'm showing 0 misses on 1539 attacks.
Retribution aura was the only buff I had up during the test.
I wonder if there is a zone wide buff that is adding +hit to everyone in the raid for some reason. Maybe that could explain how some people are reporting a 1% ghost and others a 3-4% ghost ?
Pre-Wrath release I was getting 4% ghost hit outside of Sunwell. I haven't tested properly since release, the boss dummies would be good for that.
Anyway, we determined that if you had Precision pre-3.0 it stayed with your character, at least from 3.0 to 3.03.
Well it appears that some of the ghost hit is still there. I just finished auto attacking the heroic training dummy for about an hour and a half with 180 hit (5.49%) and I'm showing 0 misses on 1539 attacks.
Retribution aura was the only buff I had up during the test.
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, i did not say that the sword was "low end" i only raised this discussion to see what the best enchant actually was.
I bet there were no hard feelings in the post and it was adressed more to me but anyways, seeing how people around me freak out about raids, how easy they are and how retarded raiding is nowadays. And I always have to remind people this is not BT/MH pre nerfs, this is not SWP, not even TK/SSC level. This is EZ mode raiding to let those ultra casuals to have fun and gear up so they can venture to T8 content. What we are raiding is bigger KZ, Gruuls and Maggie's, only without the retarded gear difference there. That's why I referred to this weapon as low end. You'd prolly not enchant mongoose on Gorehowl unless you really had much materials in your bank when KZ was fresh, new and challenging stuff. That's my point of view anyways, hope I clarified it now.
@Zurm:
Have people already told you the base stats? I keep on forgetting, possibly able to deliver stats of Human, Dwarf and Draenai paladins at lvl 80, just tell me if you still need it. The not functional Rawr is a bit pita
And some good news - reading GCs latest post, do I get it right that the cooldown of AW, HoP, DP, DS will apply to paladin only and that we still can HoP freely all over the raid aggro monkeys?
Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
Consolidated list of upcoming Paladin changes - Clarifications
I made some clarifications to my initial post.
You can use Hand of Protection during the internal cooldown, just not on yourself. The idea is to prevent the paladin from being able to combo damage immunity. We want you to still be able to use it on others.
The change to Judgements of the Pure is in addition to its current haste effects.
The taunt is called Hand of Judgement. It has a 30 yard range and 8 sec cooldown. It does a bit of Holy damage so that you can break sheep or freezing traps to pull mobs.
The change to Judgement of Wisdom was so Protection and Ret paladins (and Feral druids and whoever else) didn't feel like they were supposed to stack Int for mana, since there is none on their gear. We picked a number that shouldn't be a nerf to most Holy paladins, though it will mean that it won't keep scaling as your Int climbs, so I imagine it will be called a nerf anyway. Smiley We'll keep an eye on this -- perhaps adding an effect to a Holy talent or something to increase the return.
11/25/08, 10:27 AM
I don't have enough trinkets to test and compare DPS with. Just sharing my experiences so far with MoT procs.
but anyways, seeing how people around me freak out about raids, how easy they are and how retarded raiding is nowadays. And I always have to remind people this is not BT/MH pre nerfs, this is not SWP, not even TK/SSC level. This is EZ mode raiding to let those ultra casuals to have fun and gear up so they can venture to T8 content. What we are raiding is bigger KZ, Gruuls and Maggie's, only without the retarded gear difference there. That's why I referred to this weapon as low end. You'd prolly not enchant mongoose on Gorehowl unless you really had much materials in your bank when KZ was fresh, new and challenging stuff. That's my point of view anyways, hope I clarified it now.
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