Redcape's Ret DPS Calculator (New edition out 04/05/09 v2.5) - Page 7

Milou · 11/28/08, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jourgenson

I'm using the [Bandit's Insignia]. It crits for 1.5x. Seems to be making up about 1.5-2% of my total dps, but I don't have a lot of data to work with yet, as I just got it this week. I'll post a screenshot of my Recount after tonight's naxx10 clear.

Edit: Regarding the Judgement bug.

This happens when the judgement debuff is already applied to the mob and your judgement does not crit. You can get around this by switching between judgement debuffs using a /castsequence Judgement of Light, Judgement of Wisdom (or whichever 2 debuffs you prefer) macro.

That can't be the only case as I had judgement do nothing on a rat in Naxx25 the other night, rather embarrassing to have a rat running away from me at full health because I failed to slaughter it like that.

Dantos · 11/28/08, 5:06 PM

I think we can all safely assume that [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] (Strength Version) is one of the best trinkets in the game. But I was curious; what about [Loatheb's Shadow]? It seems to be quite powerful, not unlike [Berserker's Call]. Also seems more reliable than [Mirror of Truth]. You can always time it to coincide with Avenging Wrath, which boosts it's performance.

Of course there's [Bandit's Insignia], but my guild isn't there quite yet.

yamamoto · 11/28/08, 5:55 PM

Just something of note, Berserking Enchant does NOT have an internal CD. Proven it multiple times.

Affection · 11/28/08, 6:19 PM

Originally Posted by yamamoto

Just something of note, Berserking Enchant does NOT have an internal CD. Proven it multiple times.

I will also support this. I have refreshed my berzerking proc many times while mindlessly beating on the boss target dummy. It has at time procced on consecutive attacks many times.

As to trinkets, I have been messing around with a few, Such as Mirror, Loatheb's shadow, and Mark of Norgannon, and Grim Toll.

Curredntly Grim Toll and Mark of Norgannon seem to have slightly less dps significance, but they do provide quaility stats to allow better gemming and ease of gearing. Currently I have 1 hit gem in my gear, and I have my T6 belt and bracers still to hold some expertise, but missing some possible hit locations.

I'm a Jewelcrafter and blacksmith so I have a larger control of my gear, so I personally might have an advantage in this area over some.

But, I do think Grim Toll and Mark of Norgannon are really strong trinkets to have atm. Really can't wait to get my hands on the Darkmoon Card.

Beverage · 11/28/08, 6:33 PM

The ghost +hit has some threads on the official bug report forum, but unsurprisingly they are not active. I just bumped one of them in the hope of getting some attention. My motivations are clearly stated as follows:

The catch with this thread is that very few of us Ret Paladins are going to speak up since it's basically a free buff. It's a problem however when we're gearing up for higher content and Blizzard finds it on their own. Suddenly they fix it and we're missing judgements.

I'd like for someone to at least state that either its Working As Intended or a Known Issue. This is a very important time to be choosing gear and we need to know whether we need 5% hit from gear or 9%.

If you're a serious raider concerned with proper item selection and gearing up to defeat some content, please speak up here and keep this above the radar.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> BUG: Retribution has free +hit

Bloodvalor · 11/28/08, 8:32 PM

I just finished some more +hit testing. Once again with absolutely no +hit from gear and no buffs at all. In addition this time I was untalented 0/0/0 across all the talent trees.

2500 attacks, 133 which missed so 5.3% miss.

I think this pretty much concludes that we absolutely have a ~4% ghost hit, but it doesn't come from any buffs or any talents at all. I did have precision pre patch 3.0

I also figured this would be a good test for expertise. I didn't set up the experiment for it, but as you can see in the picture I have 5 expertise rating which gives -1.25% dodge. Add in the 4.7% attacks dodged and your at 5.95% dodge which is real close to the estimated 6.25% dodge bosses should have.

Comments, suggestions and feedback please. Thanks everyone!

Rukiia · 11/28/08, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Affection

Curredntly Grim Toll and Mark of Norgannon seem to have slightly less dps significance, but they do provide quaility stats to allow better gemming and ease of gearing. Currently I have 1 hit gem in my gear, and I have my T6 belt and bracers still to hold some expertise, but missing some possible hit locations.

I'm a Jewelcrafter and blacksmith so I have a larger control of my gear, so I personally might have an advantage in this area over some.

But, I do think Grim Toll and Mark of Norgannon are really strong trinkets to have atm. Really can't wait to get my hands on the Darkmoon Card.

Have you worked out your ideal set of gear? It appears everyone is slightly different, i would just like to see what other people are thinking.

Jourgenson · 11/29/08, 4:01 AM

Originally Posted by Milou

That can't be the only case as I had judgement do nothing on a rat in Naxx25 the other night, rather embarrassing to have a rat running away from me at full health because I failed to slaughter it like that.

Interesting. I haven't seen it bug since i started swapping debuffs.

Here is the screenshot of my recount for the Bandit's insignia from our 10 mans tonight. Archavon, naxx and some Malygos wipes. Seems like it's scaling with vengeance at least.

Terryn · 11/29/08, 6:23 AM

i find it interesting everyone is finding that ghost hit, because i'm at 291 hit ((8.87%)) and every now and again, i still see a "Miss" pop up on my screen. Dunno whats up with that =/

Babathong · 11/29/08, 4:32 PM

Could someone post a brief rundown on how to obtain the Darkmoon Strength Trinket. I understand you need to collect the cards to form the deck but I am a little confused as to what part the inscribers play in this. I also heard its very difficult and expensive to obtain these cards. If someone could just tell me what the best way to obtain this deck it would be appreciated.

ariesz · 11/29/08, 5:12 PM

The cards work off of an inscribers ability to create Card of the North. This requires 6 ink's that have a 30% chance to be found upon milling 5 Northrend herbs. When the inscriber mills he makes a rare pigment and can get 1-2 at a 30% drop rate. These pigments make the 6 ink you need along with 3 eternal life to make a random card ace through 8 from any of the four decks.

It is extremely expensive to get the deck you want because of the randomness of the Card of the North skill as you have no control over what card you make. You could theoretically make the same card 20 times in a row.

Rukiia · 11/29/08, 6:06 PM

Regarding the card, i made 3 random ones and didnt get a nobles card. I have however just bought all the cards from ah ranging from 400g to 1550g for the ace. Whilst it may seem like a lot of gold i would much rather pay it rather than wait for other drops or getting lucky with card crafts. I will be a very happy bunny on the 8th of December when the faire is up.

Milou · 11/29/08, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by Terryn

i find it interesting everyone is finding that ghost hit, because i'm at 291 hit ((8.87%)) and every now and again, i still see a "Miss" pop up on my screen. Dunno whats up with that =/

That is most likely excorcism, holy wrath or ticks of consecration missing as they are based on the spell hit cap of 17%. Check your logs to confirm but mine do show those spells missing, as well as the ever annoying resists on seals.

Jubling · 11/29/08, 6:27 PM

Originally Posted by ariesz

It is extremely expensive to get the deck you want because of the randomness of the Card of the North skill as you have no control over what card you make. You could theoretically make the same card 20 times in a row.

On average you will have to make 87 random cards to get at least one of each of the Nobles cards, so unless you have vast sums of money lying around to buy herbs for you'll have to trade or buy cards. Unfortunately the Nobles deck seems to be the best of the decks by a good margin so trading will be hard or expensive as well.

Or maybe the cards are supposed to drop randomly as well like the old ones, but are bugged and don't?

Terryn · 11/29/08, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Milou

That is most likely excorcism, holy wrath or ticks of consecration missing as they are based on the spell hit cap of 17%. Check your logs to confirm but mine do show those spells missing, as well as the ever annoying resists on seals.

I'm seeing MELEE misses on bosses, not just exorcism/consecrate ticks. =/

• Arikah · 11/29/08, 9:15 PM

I'm not sure what to make of this hit bug, but here is a sample of some large data collection. Done with expertise cap (6.5%) on a heroic training dummy, at level 80. Specced pve ret, using ret aura, 5% hit on gear, using normal rotations minus consecrate - using command to avoid killing myself with blood.

A normal judgement looks like this; all debuffs are correctly applied, the damage is dealt, and i get JotW mana return.

11/29 19:17:59.125  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,53408,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2
11/29 19:17:59.140  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,20424,"Seal of Command",0x2,686,685,2,76,0,0,nil,nil,nil
11/29 19:17:59.140  SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,20053,"Vengeance",0x1,BUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,54499,"Heart of the Crusader",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_AURA_REFRESH,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,20186,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,20467,"Judgement of Command",0x2,2588,2587,2,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,54499,"Heart of the Crusader",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:17:59.453  SPELL_PERIODIC_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,57669,"Replenishment",0x8,14,0
11/29 19:18:00.125  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,59578,"The Art of War",0x1,BUFF
11/29 19:18:00.125  SWING_DAMAGE,0x0000000000F6F785,"Kadrok",0x518,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,491,490,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
11/29 19:18:00.437  SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,61840,"Righteous Vengeance",0x2,DEBUFF
11/29 19:18:00.437  SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,31930,"Judgements of the Wise",0x2,659,0
11/29 19:18:00.437  SPELL_PERIODIC_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,20268,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2,57,0

And this is a snippet from the log (less than a minute later, in the same gear) where judgement actually misses; the debuff is not applied, no JotW mana is awarded, no damage is dealt.

11/29 19:18:51.625  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,53408,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2
11/29 19:18:51.640  SPELL_MISSED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,53408,"Judgement of Wisdom",0x2,MISS
11/29 19:18:52.843  SPELL_PERIODIC_ENERGIZE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,57669,"Replenishment",0x8,14,0
11/29 19:18:52.843  SPELL_PERIODIC_DAMAGE,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,61840,"Righteous Vengeance",0x2,1,0,2,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
11/29 19:18:52.843  SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x00000000012D6BBD,"Arikah",0x511,0xF1300079AA002A91,"Heroic Training Dummy",0x10a28,61840,"Righteous Vengeance",0x2,DEBUFF

In all of my tests, i have never seen a melee swing or strike miss with only 5% hit. I have seen multiple Judgement of Wisdom(Command) and Vindication misses. I can go back later and try a light/blood combo, but i thought this was interesting to say the least - it made me come to the conclusion that our ghost hit only applies to melee damage and strikes, but judgements for whatever reason require the actual hit cap of 9% to never miss. It may be that Judgement spells are actually considered physical ranged attacks; they do not have nearly the expected miss rate for ranged spells (17%) and can not be resisted, yet they also cannot be dodged (or parried i am assuming).

What I am saying is, if you do not have the required 295 hit, you will see some judgements miss, and because they are such a crucial part of our damage now you will suffer both on DPS and on mana return. Would anyone care to provide more data on this?

ariesz · 11/29/08, 9:46 PM

Judgement is a spell and you need 17% hit to cap on it. Is this intended? Probably not.

• Arikah · 11/29/08, 9:50 PM

Originally Posted by ariesz

Judgement is a spell and you need 17% hit to cap on it. Is this intended? Probably not.

Read what i just posted above... judgement may be a spell to us (can't use while silenced, and it deals holy damage) but the game code indicates it is actually a ranged physical attack, like a hunter's shots. 9% (295 rating) is our cap.

Merovengian · 11/30/08, 2:40 AM

I think the issue with judgements is less about the ghost hit and more about random failure. If a judgement misses it should show up as such, or resist or however else it would be recorded as such being a ranged physical attack. In my current gear i have 307 +hit rating and i'm still getting the random judgement failures.

Im currently building a full +hit set, along the lines of a TGWarrior to see how close i can get to 17% and test it then, to see if it is perhaps a bugged spellhit component that went screwy when they hotfixed the 100% judgement bug.

Terryn · 11/30/08, 4:16 AM

The issue with the judgement bug is the fact that it doesn't come up as an actual "Miss" its just flat out nothing happens -_-

Chmur · 11/30/08, 5:59 AM

Thanks for the testing Arikah. It really annoys when the judgement gets lost without anything. Even simple "miss", justyfiing it's a spell, not ranged attack would be better than just disappearing of judgement.

Anyways, bought Mirror of Truth yesterday and went into Nexus to test it, here is WWS screenie of buffs gained. It's about half the instance or maybe less, i had some connection and PC troubles, so for comparison gained SotM is highlighted too.

As it is now, the trinket is totaly inferior due to it's proc rate, because the picture implies it procs once per 2 minutes. However, I am highly inclined to blame it on my sucky crit rate. I do believe that with some proper raid gear and some raid buffs it will proc more often, pushing to previously calculated passive AP.

EDIT: Just realized i provided wrong info there - I am not resealing when seal is out, more likely after every other pull or when I just feel like it, my Seal hardly goes under minute of remaining time. Sorry for that hassle.

Alarius · 11/30/08, 7:00 AM

How is the Mirror's proc rate for everyone else? I'm considering throwing down for one once I get some more badges.

Milou · 11/30/08, 7:39 AM

Originally Posted by Terryn

I'm seeing MELEE misses on bosses, not just exorcism/consecrate ticks. =/

Could you specify how you're seeing them? Watching the combat log? Using a log parser?

Terryn · 11/30/08, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by Milou

Could you specify how you're seeing them? Watching the combat log? Using a log parser?

I've seen 1 miss on patchwerk come up on the blizzard combat text and 1 on thaddeus. I honestly dont know if its just a bug with the ghost hit bug or what with those mobs, but it would make sence with my REAL miss rate being about .37%. I did the combat dummy test today, and got the exact same results as everyone else, seeing a 4% ghost hit on both the boss lvl and lvl 80 training dummies.

Babathong · 11/30/08, 4:47 PM

In regards to the Mirror of Truth, it procs quite a bit even when using a two-hander. Initially, I thought I wasted 40 badges on it when I tested it out in heroics but after clearing Naxx 25 last night I realized its a must have right now. The thing procced left and right mainly due to my crit being around 40%. It was proccing off any type of crit as well. The thing is win along with the Fury of Five Flights trinket off of Sartharion-25.

This whole missed judgement thing is really starting to get annoying. Once in a while is bareable but I cant stand missing judgements with my wings popped and BL going. Its a huge dps loss and I dont understand why Blizzard hasnt even mentioned a word about it. When I miss it says nothing, it just doesnt do anything. The graphic is there, but no damage is done.

I also think Blizz is quite funny in there reasoning for nerfing ret pallies like they did. Our top dps every single night is our warrior, and its not even close. He does well over 3k dps without even trying. He literally does double the damage of some other specs. The class is broken at the moment but nothing from Blizz on it???