Milou

Which is why I was curious if you had actual logs to go with it. Excorcism and Consecration will both pop up a miss the the scrolling combat text if they miss. I've seen them as well and was thrown off by it though after reviewing the logs it was in fact those two spells which missed and caused my confusion.

 

• Chicken

This is indeed correct, all abilities that miss while show up as a white colored "miss". This makes it very easy to confuse what exactly just missed.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Affection

Sorry to take a while to respond, weekend party time IRL.

Its to hard to tell atm, gear varies so much. Plus there are so many things you have to consider. I do know, I plan on using the 4 piece t7( 25 man ) set. The cooldown on judgement will significantly help me on long fights with mana. I tend to have mana issues when I am not taking raid damage. Also its a large dps boost.



Adding back to the enchant topic.

I was just constantly beating on the boss target dummy again, this time I managed to go all out with my physical abilites and judgements for roughly 30 minutes without my fingers going numb. There were points where the proc was up for full minutes. Yes, full minutes. The duration is 20 seconds on the proc, and within that 20 seconds, it can proc at anytime on any swing or seal. Judgement can also proc it.

The longest period of time the proc wasn't up, wasn't much at all.

While doing this test I noticed something with Grim Toll. Judgement can proc a 2nd arp effect. So if you are lucky enough to have it procced already from a melee hit and it procs from judgement, you will gain double the effects. I'm not sure if this is intended. It could be due to Judgement being considered a ranged attack maybe? ( I personally don't know so please don't use my information as fact about judgement being considered a ranged attack )

I also checked hammer of wrath later on in the night, and it too can proc Grim Toll, but it seems to have a very slight chance. Maybe I was getting bad RNG.


Anyhow, I will be doing more extensive testing on the proc and getting solid numbers. Currently I cannot find a mod or anything that will record procs. There are some, but when you currently have a buff, it thinks its only 1 proc instead of multiples when they refresh. IE WWS.

 

Fudder

Are the numbers taking into account glyphs such as [Glyph of Seal of Command]?

 

Rukiia

In regards to dps. Our hunter does way more than that, he is constantly 4k+ dps, even 10 man Naxx tonight was 5010 dps on Patchwerk, yes fury is strong but dont rule out other classes. Personally i am pretty happy with ret dps. So long as i can come between 4th and 8th im will not be complaining. Its tricky, but doable.

 

SSWarder

Sorry to go back to this post, but besides the ghost hit i found something else that matches more or less my own tests, and happens during boss fights aswell: i'm missing about 5% crit.

This test was done like many others, completly unbuffed (no aura aswell) leaving the character auto attacking the heroic training dummy during the night, luckly when i got back my weapon had 2/100 durability so there are no unarmed results. And yes, i had precision during TBC.

RNG at it's finest? Or do we have more people having the same crit deficit results?

 

Fiola

If you subtract the glancing blows from the total swings, the crit rate seems to be in line. Perhaps that's why?


5438 Hit
2723 Glancing
1767 Crit
725 Dodge
584 Miss

11237 Total => 15.7% crit
8514 Adjusted Total (ignore glancing blows) => 20.75% Crit

 

• frmorrison

If you still have ghost precision, it affects only weapon attacks, so damage procs from trinkets and unarmed are not affected.

The crit deficit comes from your weapon skill at 400 and the boss having 415 or more defense. Defense removes crits.

 

Chmur

It's berserking we are talking here, right? Now this would be very good news, on the other hand hard to count exact dps return... but would mean this enchant is by far superior to everything else that you don't need maths on it unless you are control freak.

Sounds logical to me, if Judgement is to be considered "ranged" ability and not spell, another proof added to 9% hit being enough not to miss a single one (please mind the word "miss" there). So I think we can assume that pretty surely. So those 2 procs do stack, not refresh one another?

If you find something like that, I'd love you to post it here. Was looking for something like this for few days by now. My MSBT has problems showing Mirror of Truth procs, so having something to count it in game would be nice.


New topic: What's the community oppinion in creating WotLK consolidated retadin thread? Same as was there in TBC? The discussion pretty much moved in this thread, however there are still people that want to know the basics without too much effort and imho I'd rather spend few days summing these things up to provide all starter rets basic info, than let our great spec decay into "retardin" state again. Note that I am not volunteering for the job, as I am not that fond of TCrafting, but don't mind doing that if noone else is up for it.

-Golden quote from those wild days around 3.03 release-

 

Rukiia

Nice idea, these forums are very nice to see what other peoples view are on various class ideas. Already over these 8 pages a lot of problems/ideas have been discussed and hopefully this will continue.

 

FitzVeritas

Sorry to change the subject, I just have a question and need other people's opinions.
Last night i looted Death's Bite from Kel'Thuzad.
I was wondering wich enchant i should give the axe. Should I go for the 110 passive AP that Massacre gives or should i give the axe Berserking wich gives 400 AP on proc. And how much does it proc? Is it worth it?

 

MarshallX

There is 2 pages of discussion on this about 3 pages back.

Everything cleaves. And their cleaves cleave. And those cleaves thunderclap. These thunderclaps deathcoil.

So, no rogues.

 

Rukiia

It was "decided" overall that beserking is the best due to the fact it can proc regularly. As pointed out please check the previous few pages, this thread is only 8 pages long currently so there is not really any excuse how you could have missed the discussion.

 

Alarius

Allow me to point you to a few posts before yours...

 

Milou

Could someone post some logs showing this high proc rate on Berserking? So far I can only go with the proc rate our shaman is seeing, with only one hand enchanted he procs on average once per 45 seconds. That would make it slightly worse than Massacre.

 

Chmur

Even with that rate it should be still superior to Massacre. Please read up the following I dig deeper in thread, relative line highlighted in red. Check if I am right, if I am not then let's correct the numbers.




AND



Now, we just need more of the anecdotal evidence it can chain proc, else we have to assume it's Mongoose type enchant with 20/45 timers

-Golden quote from those wild days around 3.03 release-

 

Milou

Those use incorrect values was my issue with it as berserking is a 15 second duration. And my terminology may have been off but the numbers that I am seeing on our shaman currently are 45 off and 15 on, or in other words 15 seconds of 400AP per 60 second time-slice. This gives an average of 100AP over a minute, compared to the constant 110AP from massacre.

In terms of the assumption of 20 seconds, that is not correct according to wowhead meaning that it would not go beyond that 27% figure but in fact be 25%.

As to which is better given those two, personally I believe it is stronger to have constant AP boost of equal value as opposed to playing rng roulette. The flip-side would be if coordinated with a trinket/wings could represent a huge dps boost over those 15 seconds.

 

Affection

The proc overwrites itself, so it does show up as 1 proc, when it can proc 2-3 times while you already have the buff. So your 2 procs count as 1 on parses.

Like I've previously stated, I would love some kinds of mod that would actually count them. I have been using a /cancelaura macro to remove the buff and try to get a parse on it, and at points i'm to slow to remove it and have to start over again. Thats from my seal proccing the enchant right after my main attack does.


If you want and oddball number, since its not really easy to figure the proc rate out. I will throw the number of 10-15% proc rate on the enchant.

Like today, I did 10 man naxx, and I had the buff on for the entire thaddius fight, yes, the entire fight. On other fights, such as Patchwerk, I only gained the buff on a steady level of twice per minute or so. There were times it lasted 30 seconds and some times it was up for 25 seconds etc... due to it proccing on follow-up hits.


I didn't run any parsers for the run since 10 man naxx is very trivial. I did take off some hit gear to see if I missed here and there, and I certainly missed a few attacks while below the 9% cap.

I have also noticed that I rarely get judgement bugs anymore, doubt it was a hotfix or anything like that. But I do think it has to do with something about hit. I'm just speculating atm so don't use me as a source.


If the game wasn't so easy in its current form, I might try harder on getting parses etc... But really.. this game is a joke to pve right now, and all the number crunching isn't really interesting me in the current state of the game. The only thing I have really cared about is +hit and the judgement bug, Once those 2 things have been either confirmed and fixed would I really start to care about crunching numbers again.

 

Killmour

I have 296 hit and get the Judgment bug constantly, I recently tried using a cast sequence macro with Light and Wisdom in it as someone suggested earlier in the thread and it seems to help.

I still get weird things occasionally where my first judgment on a boss does absolutely nothing, but I actually got through an entire 10 man patchwerk kill with zero judgments that bugged out.

 

Blutelf

Are some players affected by the Judgement bug more often than others? I can count the number of times this bug happened to me on one hand, and that's from 3.0.2 release onwards, playing both as Holy and Ret. I also always judge Light consecutively.

It did occur in Wintergrasp PVP once, under entirely different conditions than you'd have in a 25 raid, so it must be just really difficult to pinpoint for Blizzard.

 

Mountie

The bug seems to happen to me more in party play than in raid or solo. In fact I don't recall any time in the last week it's happened while soloing. I'm also running an obscene 330+ hit rating thanks to rng drops. In raids i don't seem to notice the bug much, though I don't pay attention on trash and RNG alone could make it so I don't see a bug occurance on the bosses. In all the heroics I've done(and that's a lot) I've noticed the bug quite a bit, a few occurances per run.


I'm also unsure about the need for 4 piece tier 7 for judgement bonus. The only fight I have mana issues on right now is patchwerk, and by using LoH on myself(with the minor glyph to boost mana gained by 20%) I can get by and still use a dps pot. Every other fight, mana is fine. The tier peices just seem like such poor alternatives to the other gear out there and with the upcomming JoW changes I see even less of a reason to force haste-heavy gear when better options are available.

 

• Chicken

I personally did not have disappearing Judgements occur until I had another Paladin with Heart of the Crusader specced in the raid. We seem to have it less often now that we've both agreed on which Judgement to use though, I now always judge Light while he always judges Wisdom. I can't be certain whether that's the actual issue though. But it's probably related to either an early talent in the Retribution tree, or to a Glyph.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Exemplar

We need someone to please post data regarding Berserking. Anecdotes are nice, but wildly inaccurate.

Garbage in - Garbage out. Until we get reliable data we cannot properly assess if the enchantment is worth anything at all.

My initial assessment was barely better than Massacre (see below). Then in came statements it could chain with no internal cooldown or PPM effect, which obviously inflates its desirability, so I edited my math.

1 PPM is 15/60 or 100 AP (suck).
45 sec internal cooldown, average 5 seconds to proc is 15/50 or 120 AP (meh, barely better than massacre, at the mercy of RNG to proc). This was my initial assessement, as Blizz seems to like the 45sec int cooldown mechanic.
2 PPM (no cooldown, or chain proccing, etc) would be 200 AP (nice!).

In short, it either rocks or it blows goats. Until we know how it actually is functioning, we cannot tell.

Could someone post logs or recount?

 

• frmorrison

A few people earlier said the enchant can proc while it is up.

The Insightful Meta (600 mana gained on some spellcasts) has a 45 second cooldown for all classes except Paladins, it was this way in TBC as well. So there is an precedent for procs acting strangely for Paladins.

 

Exemplar

And others said it cannot proc while it's up. Anecdotes are contradicting each other - we need something that shows one group is accurate.