No one here has posted 3.3 numbers for Prot settings (maybe Maintankadin?), but it is clear to me that Rawr thinking pure avoidance gems are best means there is something wrong there with that poster's Rawr settings.

One good way to see if your settings are correct is if the plate bonus armor pieces are BiS (even over 277 items).

For me I just set the raw damage to 100,000 and check Chill of the Throne and it starts recommending pure stamina gems everywhere. Without Chill of the Throne I'd have to throttle the mitigation scale down to ~0.3 in order to suggest even a balanced gemming strategy, though.

Something of note concerning EH values, quote from the Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Based on Theck's math, 11.7 armor would be the equivalent of 1 stam in a fight with purely armor-mitigating damage.

[The Black Heart] is currently accepted as having an ICD of 45 seconds and will have about a 22.2% uptime. That's equivalent to 1568 armor, or 134 stam. Subtract the relevant percentage of that based on the potion of magical and/or "bleed" damage in the fight.

I'll do the stam equivalent of the extra armor many of the ICC items have. Note that both the normal and heroic versions of Gargoyle Spit Bracers have the same amount of extra armor.

[Cataclysmic Chestguard] +1176 armor, 100.5 stam
[Gargoyle Spit Bracers] +630 armor, 53.8 stam
[Gauntlets of the Kraken] +658 armor, 56.2 stam
[Pillars of Might] +1790 armor, 152.9 stam
[Verdigris Chain Belt] +658 armor, 56.2 stam

Total: 4912 armor, 419.8 stam.

Again, the armor loses value as "stamina" the more magical or armor-avoiding damage there is. Even with that though these items could very well be BiS unless you're going after 4pT10.

I totally understood his implication and I chose to just close the topic because I felt that a further discussion would just be clutter in the thread.

if you're curious, I checked all applicable raid buffs, mob damage as 100,000, threat scale = 0. others were default. At the time I did this, Rawr didn't have an option for Chill of the Throne. So without chill of the throne it suggests defense, dodge and parry gems rather than combo gems. which I don't think it should and was wondering if there was something I was missing to this concept.

First post on these forums

I've been doing some testing with SoC (Seal of Command 3.3), and it does indeed seem to be bugged (To our advantage)

I can verify that you must face the targets you wish to cleave with SoC, but this only applies to Retribution. The seal cannot proc of Judgements or DS, and is not supposed to either. I've been talking to a GM about this, and he confirms that it is only ment to proc from CS and autoattacks.

However, this seal acts strange for protection specs.
The seal cleaves with Judgement and ShoR. I've been asking a GM ingame about this, and he can confirm that the seal is not supposed to proc off Judgement or ShoR

I tested this by standing ouy of melee range of my target (I tested this on a dummy in UC, as well as cultist mobs in Icecrown). Used JoL, JoW and JoJ to eliminate possible bugs of a single judgement. I could then see from my combatlog, as well as my floating combattext, that the cleave procs and hits the nearby dummy as well as my primary target.

To test this seal with ShoR, I attacked with ShoR, unarmed and checked for possible attacks done unarmed. I confirmed this by looking at Recount, and I can safely say that I did only hit with ShoR, and I did indeed proc SoC's cleave.

I can also say that I a few times had my SoC cleave proc on mobs standing behind me. According to our retribution thread, this should not happen.

I can finally also say that this applies to mobs, as well as dummys. I have replicated my results in both of these scenarios

For what it's worth, this is happening for Protection and not Retribution because of Judgements of the Just; the seal proc is from the application of the Judgements of the Just debuff rather than the Judgement itself.

As a minor, but fun, note: if you happen to be in a threat/dps set as prot (tanking random heroics, perhaps, or trash) and you're using FoFF, it builds a stack every time an enemy is struck by SoC and also every time an enemy is struck by HoR. In AoE situations, you can probably get up to the full 20 stacks faster than even a rogue could and I'm typically up to 8-10 stacks within a GCD or two of the mobs reaching melee range.

I posted earlier regarding Rawr settings for prot paladins; for 3.2, using Rawr 2.2.27 or thereabouts, I set threat = 0, mob damage = 80,000, and mitigation scale = 0.67. I have been away from my computer for a couple weeks for the holidays, so I haven't updated Rawr or adjusted settings for 3.3 yet. However, there are a few checks you can make to tweak your settings:

Generally speaking, the Hodir exalted shoulder enchant should be rated higher than the gladiator shoulder enchant.
Stamina gems should of course be superior to all others.
My personal feeling is that +9 stam socket bonuses are worth socketing for while +6 stam are not, so I'll check particular items to make sure that Rawr reflects those priorities. This may have changed with ICC valuing stam more, but I've been off WoW for a couple weeks so I'm not sure as to that yet.

Pay particular attention to Theck's posts on armor valuation - armor is amazing for fights that are entirely physical; however, I expect we'll face a fair amount of magical or non-mitigated physical damage in ICC, so this must be taken into account (and hopefully a slider for damage source will be added to Rawr.Protadin in the near future).

This is actually consistent behavior from 3.2 for Judgements, as Lumines pointed out. It procs off of the application of the Judgements of the Just debuff. For extra fun, try it with Seal of Righteousness, which procs twice per Judgement (once for Judgement, once for JotJ).

The ShoR procs happen because as of 3.3, ShoR has been changed to a melee attack. So now it can be dodged and parried, and procs seals. This is also why Expertise has become our best threat stat post-3.3 (up to the soft-cap only, of course).

You're right, my calculation involves no directionality. It assumes everything is standing in front of you, and thus gets HotR cleaves and so forth. So that's another bonus for SoCom.

However, it hardly changes the result. You should only ever have a mob behind you if you have 3+ mobs, and if you have 3+ mobs, you should be using SoCom anyway because it's flat-out better no matter where the mobs are standing.

If you're tanking a single mob and it ends up behind you, you have bigger problems.

The discussion is about the benefits of Agi/Armor Enchants and Agi/Stam Gems.