Posted this in the Ret Thread, but maybe it would be easier to answer here.
- What is the highest DPS 1 Hand and Shield (For Ret)? Assuming only one rank of ShoR.
- Is the Judgement (Martyr) coefficient based on weapon damage or DPS? The tooltip is listed as 0.36*mw+0.16*AP+0.25*SPH) What exactly is MW?
- Is 20 STR more DPS than 65 ap for a one hander? How about if only Judgement and ShoR were considered?
- Is Libram of Obstruction the best DPS Libram for 1 Hand + Shield? Is so, is this true after the patch?
Originally Posted by Chicken
I did some testing recently on the patrolling robots past Curator in Karazhan on what "type" each of our attacks have.
...
And yes, that is no mistake in Judgement being melee .
Quick observation here. Judgement seems to be a ranged attack when applied to talents like Divine Purpose. I miss Judgements on Paladins in PvP when I have 5% Hit.
The reason is because your healers are going to be casting those heals anyway. Most holydins I know just tell me they sit back and spam heal and overheal - there's really no point in sidestepping for them and they just keep spamming heals.
With a 60% block/23% dodge/18% parry chance, and ~31k armor (stoneskin totem, inspiration from priest crit, imp devo aura) you're going to be hit for roughly 12k. ... Also, with such a high block rate, this is nearly guaranteed blockage - you're very rarely going to get hit for full damage. I will also dodge 23 times for 276000 damage less taken, and parry 18 times, for 216000 damage less taken. I will get a full hit once.
Now let's take avoidance. Let's say you switch gear to avoidance, and you come out with 50% block, 26% dodge, and 22% parry. Your block value will be in the 1300 raid buffed range. Over 102 hits, you'll block 50% of the time, for a total blockage of 64000 damage less taken. Then you'll dodge 26 of the times, for 312000 less taken and parry 22% of the time for 264000 less damage taken. You'll take 4 full hits.
Block value set damage reduction: 150840 + 276000 + 216000 = 642840
Avoidance set damage reduction: 64000 + 312000 + 264000 = 640000
Except that you haven't accounted for miss in either set, and you're assuming 100% uptime on inspiration, which might be a bit optimistic. Your Hateful Strikes seem on the low end of the range; our tanks seem to get hit for about 21k or so, without a lot of inspiraton/ancestral fortitude procs, but with Sacred Shield absorbing about 2k off one-in-three hits. Assuming they have 60% armor (probably higher), that's around 50k base hit (pre-armor). You'd need to be well past the armor cap to reduce that to a 12k hit. Are you talking 10-man Patchwerk, perhaps?
Assuming that you could get the damage down to 12k or so (please tell me how to do this!), you'd see:
You also gave full hits in either the BV or the avoidance set, but both are actually unhittable with the amount of block rating you've got. (After talents, about 25% block rating is probably enough to approach unhittable.) I've preserved this possibility, although it seems unlikely. Realistically, one more of the hits would have been avoided in the avoidance set, but I've left the counts as you had them, except reducing both block numbers by 10 to account for misses.
I'm planning to gem my T7.25 helm with the Eternal Earthstorm Diamond for threat, since it has extra Block Value on it, and regem my Thane's Tainted Greathelm with the Austere Earthsiege Diamond for survival.
If 2% armor gives 1% reduction in hits on Patchwerk, we can compare those (assuming the 12k hits mentioned above, just to use the same scale):
EED would contribute 5% of 2514, or about 120 block value.
AED would reduce the incoming damage by an additional 1% of the base value, or 60->61% off a base 30k hit. 40% of 30k is 12000; 39% of 30k is 11700, or a 300 reduction on every hit.
The crossover between EED and AED, assuming 120 block value and 60% -> 61% armor reduction, is around a 12000 base hit, which would be mitigated to 4800 by 60% armor, and down to 4680 by 61% armor. If you're getting hit for more than about 5k physical, AED is going to be better mitigation.
EED is also better if you're struggling to reach uncrittable, and it's a better threat gem than the AED could ever hope to be, even with Armored to the Teeth.
Posted this in the Ret Thread, but maybe it would be easier to answer here.
- What is the highest DPS 1 Hand and Shield (For Ret)? Assuming only one rank of ShoR.
- Is the Judgement (Martyr) coefficient based on weapon damage or DPS? The tooltip is listed as 0.36*mw+0.16*AP+0.25*SPH) What exactly is MW?
- Is 20 STR more DPS than 65 ap for a one hander? How about if only Judgement and ShoR were considered?
- Is Libram of Obstruction the best DPS Libram for 1 Hand + Shield? Is so, is this true after the patch?
I worked out some some numbers for protection DPS for those times when you don't want to blow 200g in respecs where the content varies between 1 and 3 tanks needed, but you actually want to contribute to dps. (ex. Thaddius, when someone else is supposed to tank, but it's a DPS race. Malygos in P1 would be another good example.)
Ret numbers will be different and more complicated thanks to a variety of talents like Vengeance, but for prot, I came up with the following values, not accounting for any glyphs, etc. (Although maybe I should have counted glyph of judgement, since that's probably part of most prot pallies' glyphs.) Assumption is that you aren't hit or expertise capped, have about 20% raidbuffed crit, are using SoB/SoM, attacking from behind, and that the ShoR bug has been fixed:
As far as I'm aware, Libram of Obstruction is the best DPS libram for 1H + shield; you'd need to suggest an alternative that supplied better results as an alternative. I'm not sure under what circumstances you'd just use judgement and ShoR (holy, maybe?), but the coefficient on Judgements pretty much guarantees that the 14BV plus 46 AP will be better than 65 AP if you rule out extra melee attacks, seals, consecrate, and instants. That 14 BV assumes that you have Divine Strength and Redoubt; ShoR also recieves an additional 30% increase from Shield of the Templar.
With respect to Seal of Blood/Seal of the Martyr, 'mw' and 'MW' are min-weapon-dps and max-weapon-dps, which means that SoB/SoM scale with weapon DPS (and actually scale twice with AP: 0.16 + 0.36 * 1/14, or about 0.186). The highest-dps shield is probably Wall of Terror from KT-25, it has abnormally low stamina and extra strength to make up for it. Hero's Surrender and Barricade of Eternity will vary depending on the value of expertise; if expertise is sufficiently important for your DPS, Barricade might even surpass the Wall. For weapon, the highest-dps 1H would probably also be off KT-25, Last Laugh.
Why would you use a BV set while OT patchwork? What you need to do there is use a max avoidance set while still keeping a high enough hp to survive a HS. There's no real benefit to blocking 1k more on a HS when you could be avoiding them, which will lower the incoming damage by a lot and will make it much less likely for the melee/other tanks to die.
Why wouldn't you use [Thane's Tainted Greathelm]? It has way more avoidance and no item budget wasted on expertise. You're right that every self-respecting paladin tank will have a BV/high stam set and an avoidance/high stam set (both sets providing uncrushability or whatever the fancy name is these days).
The threat difference is quite noticeable as well, with full avoidance gear on on PW I'm not going to be above 1800 dps even while maintaining a full rotation (no light, no sor rank 1/2) and my threat would be quite low if it wasn't for the fight mechanics. I don't think we'll be able to shrug off BV/hit/expertise as threat stats for much longer.
On that subject, what is the best way to improve our threat actually?
Thane's Tainted Greathelm has 0.44% more avoidance than Vital Protection. That's before DR, after DR it will be even less. Vital Protection has 27 (31) more STA and more armor, in addition to the expertise. Honestly, I think it's pretty close.
Already cleared everything this week - when I jump back on Patchwerk next Tuesday, I'll actually WWS and go through the logs. And while I look at your comparison, and I understand what you mean - the damage intake still has a small difference between the two, while the BC set adds ridiculous more DPS and threat when comparing the sets. I know that's not what we're mentioning or looking at, but it is a side effect, and it's always good to look at the big picture.
Our webstats have not been updated since nobody cares anymore, so I don't have a WWS but according to recount posted in raidchat I managed 3.3k dps on last weeks Patchwork (25man as MT). Keep in mind tough that I am stacking blockvalue as mitigation stat and abuse the ShoR bug. (I think I was using Mighty Fort + Mastery elixir instead of a flask too.)
I think blockvalue as mitigation stat is underrated, and god knows why a protection paladin would use the Armor meta over the block one.
Ignoring the ShR bug (which will presumably be gone next week), I hit a bit over 2.4k dps as MT on our clear this week in my standard tanking gear. In the name of science, I'm going to see how far I can push that next week by stacking blockvalue.
As far as whether to focus on avoidance or blocking for OTing Patchwerk, I think you'll probably get the most relevant opinion simply by asking your own healers. My thinking right now is that if your healers are fine with you stacking blockvalue, you should do that, especially if you're shooting for the 3-minute kill achievement.
Originally Posted by Xequecal
Blockvalue isn't underrated, the problem is almost every single item that has blockvalue on it also has block rating on it, which is virtually useless.
Assuming that's your tanking gear in your armory profile, you're still 8-9% short of fully covering the hit table with HS up, so block rating is still going to improve your average mitigation. I understand that if you're going for an avoidance strategy with your gear that block rating isn't optimal, but it's still not a bad thing to have.
The rule of thumb I use is 1 str = 2 blkv = 4 AP, which matches these numbers pretty closely.
Originally Posted by Azrealdnt
- What is the highest DPS 1 Hand and Shield (For Ret)? Assuming only one rank of ShoR.
- Is the Judgement (Martyr) coefficient based on weapon damage or DPS? The tooltip is listed as 0.36*mw+0.16*AP+0.25*SPH) What exactly is MW?
- Is 20 STR more DPS than 65 ap for a one hander? How about if only Judgement and ShoR were considered?
- Is Libram of Obstruction the best DPS Libram for 1 Hand + Shield? Is so, is this true after the patch?
If we assume 1 weapon dps is as valuable as 14 AP, then 1 weapon dps is worth 2.38 dps. This might be a bit off if Andris' numbers assume a scaling AP buff like Unleashed Rage, but if we apply them to one-handed axes, maces, and swords then [Last Laugh] wins out by a very comfortable margin. (Which isn't especially surprising, given that it's the only ilevel 226 weapon that really qualifies for this purpose.)
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
I'm noticing that rings/amulets don't have green bonus armor anymore but plain white text listing their armor e.g. [Gatekeeper]. Is this armor eligible for multipliers such as Toughness or is it still the same old treatment?
"Increases your armor value from items by 10% and reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 30%."
I just checked my [Keystone Great-Ring], and got an armor value of 539. Since 490*1.1=539, it's pretty safe to assume that any armor (green or white) gets the 10% bonus armor from an item. Doesn't matter what item it is, if it has armor on it, it gets 10% more armor added to it.
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If we assume 1 weapon dps is as valuable as 14 AP, then 1 weapon dps is worth 2.38 dps. This might be a bit off if Andris' numbers assume a scaling AP buff like Unleashed Rage, but if we apply them to one-handed axes, maces, and swords then [Last Laugh] wins out by a very comfortable margin. (Which isn't especially surprising, given that it's the only ilevel 226 weapon that really qualifies for this purpose.)
I didn't count any scaling raid buffs like Unleashed Rage or Blessing of Kings. The numbers also don't count Consecration, as I didn't expect that to be a viable DPS tool without Judgements of the Wise. The rotation would basically consist of Judge, Hammer, ShoR. I also didn't count in HoW below 20%, because I have no idea how to model that.
Last Laugh is definitely the obvious winner for dps -- the 13 dps from ilvl and the strength on the weapon pretty much cinch that. For my own gear, I've been holding onto anything with high strength and block value for my threat set, and then have a second set with high avoidance and bonus armor.
Originally Posted by stabbymcgee
I just checked my [Keystone Great-Ring], and got an armor value of 539. Since 490*1.1=539, it's pretty safe to assume that any armor (green or white) gets the 10% bonus armor from an item. Doesn't matter what item it is, if it has armor on it, it gets 10% more armor added to it.
Did you try that on the PTR or on live? There seems to be some speculation that Toughness on the PTR may be affected the same way that Druid bonus armor is being adjusted.
Thane's Tainted Greathelm has 0.44% more avoidance than Vital Protection. That's before DR, after DR it will be even less. Vital Protection has 27 (31) more STA and more armor, in addition to the expertise. Honestly, I think it's pretty close.
No the avoidance difference will be higher after DR. Thane's avoidance comes from both dodge and parry, while vital protection has only parry rating. The dodge rating on thane will suffer less from DR, unless you have twice as many dodge as parry somehow. Then the difference boils down to:
It's still a very close call, both hats have their merits, but for an avoidance set I'd pick Thane's tainted greathelm, even though it's 13 ilvl's lower. If only [Platehelm of the Great Wyrm] had a meta socket then the choice would be easy. Not all tanking loot needs to have expertise on it!
Hello people. I've have heard about the greatness of this forum's inhibitors in theorycrafting far and wide, and thus decided to come ask you a question of mass importance to my ego: how does diminishing returns work?
If I have 50% avoidance (dodge+parry+miss) on my screen, simplifying it into a single stat for diminishing return(I know it's a bit diffrent), will I have 50% to avoid first hit. 50%*dr for second hit after I avoided, 50%*dr/2 etc. or I will have a 50%*dr chance to avoid any incoming hit, nomatter how many I avoided?
I tried to logic my way thro the problem (not too improtent): According to the first post, any extra dodge grants less avoidance then the previous due to diminishing returns. This implies to my meager brain the second option. On the other hand, the wording on armor was a bit diffrent, which implied me to the first option.
Being unhittable (With the right gear, which doesn't exist ATM) is implying strongly that it's a set percent, since versus a very fast hitting mob, it might reduce your avoidance enough to hit you.
Our guild's main tank thinks it's the second option.
All in all, I'm pretty confused, and would be happy if you guys could give me a clear answer to the question.
No the way it works is rather simple if you're not too concerned with the math behind it. The value on your character screen is how much you will avoid versus a lvl 80 mob. When you're fighting a boss you will obviously avoid a bit less due to the higher weapon skill of that mob.
Diminishing returns effects the conversion of your dodge rating/parry rating/ defence rating to the numbers you see on your character screen. It only means that the more of a rating you have, the fewer avoidance an extra unit of that rating will give. Simply said, 1 dodge rating will give you less real dodge the more dodge you have already. Say, purely hypothetical, that you have 10% dodge, then 1 dodge rating would give you for example 1% dodge, now if you had 30% dodge, then 1 dodge rating would give you only .5% extra dodge. (these numbers are made up)
And to address your other theory, I'm fairly sure the only dynamically calculated diminishing returns in WoW are PvP crowd control times. Calculating dynamic DR on things like dodge, parry, etc (option 1 that you described) would add a huge server load, which is probably part of the reason they don't do it.
In any case, as Exewut says, your option 2 is closer to what actually happens: the more of an avoidance rating you have the less each additional point is worth (just like armor and % damage reduction have interacted for ages).
The problem with Patchwerk is that the hatefuls hit so hard that even pushing your BV to the max won't make any change in the number of unhealed hits you can take before you die. Most tanks will die if they take 3-4 hits in a row without heals regardless of whether they have 1K BV or 3K BV. Using an avoidance set simply reduces the chances that you'll take all those hits back to back; as you said, it's still possible to get unlucky and avoid nothing, but in that case you're probably going to die no matter what kind of BV you're wearing if the heals don't land at the right time.
As you said, the healers never stop casting and never cancel their casts on this fight, so there are always heals in flight. The overall HPS you receive from your healers easily beats the DPS patchwerk does against you, so just looking at overall damage taken for the fight doesn't really matter; your health will get reset to full every couple of seconds. The problem is that if all of the healers' casting times line up, you can have periods of a couple seconds where all of the heals are still in flight and none are landing. These are the times where a string of unavoided hatefuls will kill you, regardless of how much BV you have.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the same thing will essentially happen if you're wearing an avoidance set, correct? There are going to be times where an unlucky string of hateful strikes practically decimate you regardless of what else is going on there at the moment, it's literally just RNG in the worst way possible. Even if you are using the high avoidance set, there's a chance that instead of getting a dodge / parry / miss, the string will hit the block side of your table, and at that point a lower block value hurts even more. I believe Damnathor's point was that the block value tends to smooth out bumps in general for his healers, not just situationally, but across the board.
I understand that traditionally, the emphasis has been placed on not getting hit, period (with dodge / parry as avoidance stats). With diminishing returns, it seems that the optimum route to go for damage mitigation WOULD be block value after hitting the point of significant diminishing returns. Obviously, dont go the route of absolutely itemizing towards block, but with such a large percentage of our avoidance table being block, it makes more sense to maximize it's effectiveness, no? Not to mention the additional threat generation, which I think will come more into play in upcoming content.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the same thing will essentially happen if you're wearing an avoidance set, correct? There are going to be times where an unlucky string of hateful strikes practically decimate you regardless of what else is going on there at the moment, it's literally just RNG in the worst way possible. Even if you are using the high avoidance set, there's a chance that instead of getting a dodge / parry / miss, the string will hit the block side of your table, and at that point a lower block value hurts even more. I believe Damnathor's point was that the block value tends to smooth out bumps in general for his healers, not just situationally, but across the board.
I understand that traditionally, the emphasis has been placed on not getting hit, period (with dodge / parry as avoidance stats). With diminishing returns, it seems that the optimum route to go for damage mitigation WOULD be block value after hitting the point of significant diminishing returns. Obviously, dont go the route of absolutely itemizing towards block, but with such a large percentage of our avoidance table being block, it makes more sense to maximize it's effectiveness, no? Not to mention the additional threat generation, which I think will come more into play in upcoming content.
Correct, you can still have an unlucky string of hits, even if you're wearing your maximum avoidance gear, it's just somewhat less likely to occur. The point I was trying to get across is that (on Patchwerk specifically), the mitigation from block value will never have any impact on survivability. The same string of unhealed hits that will kill you in your avoidance gear is almost guaranteed to also kill you in a maximum BV set, simply because each individual hit is so incredibly large. If you live through a given string of hits, then if you'd opted for BV you might have taken less damage from whichever hits did land, but this advantage is almost immediately erased since you get massively overhealed every couple of seconds on this fight. To put it another way, you can't really "smooth the bumps" on Patchwerk because the bumps are actually mountains and large amounts of BV can only trim the tip of the mountain. Absolutely any set of gear you wear will result in death if you happen to take 3-4 non-avoided hits at the same time all of the healers' cast bars line up. The more avoidance you can put on, the less likely you are to take those strings of hits but, as you pointed out, you can never completely eliminate the possibility of getting unlucky.
On other (non-Patchwerk) fights, I much prefer EH/mitigation to avoidance since is does smoothe the incoming damage and also allows better utilization of druid HOT's, but Patchwerk is a fight where avoidance clearly becomes the way to go.
To Left Exewut (the two of you), thanks for the fast response . Just another quick questionthat bugged me a little bit: I have done a little test on my paladin-I used a proc that gives 300 dodge rating with tanking gear and with retri gear. Both tests yielded the same amount of dodge (7.63%) on my screen. Does trinkets and such not affected by DR, I do not have enough dodge to get the DR to actually matter much, or I got some kind of bug?
Thanks again.
To Left Exewut (the two of you), thanks for the fast response . Just another quick questionthat bugged me a little bit: I have done a little test on my paladin-I used a proc that gives 300 dodge rating with tanking gear and with retri gear. Both tests yielded the same amount of dodge (7.63%) on my screen. Does trinkets and such not affected by DR, I do not have enough dodge to get the DR to actually matter much, or I got some kind of bug?
Thanks again.
What is your dodge rating in your prot set? I'll test this as well when I get home today, cause I'm curious as well to see as well now.
Assuming that's your tanking gear in your armory profile, you're still 8-9% short of fully covering the hit table with HS up, so block rating is still going to improve your average mitigation. I understand that if you're going for an avoidance strategy with your gear that block rating isn't optimal, but it's still not a bad thing to have.
I'm aware of that, but in a raid setting you get over 250 extra agility from Earth totem/Horn of Winter, Kings, AGI/STA food, and Mark of the Wild. That plus Insect Swarm is going to pretty much cover the gap.
My alt is a prot paladin that I want to try and gear up for some Nax 10-man raids. I was holy at level 70 so I'm really not familiar with prot paladin gearing and tanking stats in general. Does anyone have or know of any website that has a decent list of pre-raid instance drops to gear myself out in preparation for Nax? I'm trying to figure out what I should spend badges on and what heroics I should farm for gear.
My alt is a prot paladin that I want to try and gear up for some Nax 10-man raids. I was holy at level 70 so I'm really not familiar with prot paladin gearing and tanking stats in general. Does anyone have or know of any website that has a decent list of pre-raid instance drops to gear myself out in preparation for Nax? I'm trying to figure out what I should spend badges on and what heroics I should farm for gear.
When making "wishlists" of gear I use wowhead. Filter for Def and plate then search each slot to determine the Best piece for what I'm able to acquire. As anyone here will tell you your gear will vary greatly on what you have, what you gem for, and what you need to hit the the caps.
What is your dodge rating in your prot set? I'll test this as well when I get home today, cause I'm curious as well to see as well now.
I always assumed that the char sheet did not calculate DRs for you. If you mouseover the relevant stats, there's that caveat tagline "Before diminishing returns".
Originally Posted by DeeNogger
I look forward to seeing these "numbers". Notice that I put the word numbers in quotations. Thats sassy type for "you're full of shit".
Originally Posted by Florrie
Nothing spells out attraction quite like being given books about the slaughter of your people.
I'm aware of that, but in a raid setting you get over 250 extra agility from Earth totem/Horn of Winter, Kings, AGI/STA food, and Mark of the Wild. That plus Insect Swarm is going to pretty much cover the gap.
Using my spreadsheet, even with Improved Mark of the wild, Horn of Winter (Which does not stack with SoE) and the 40agi/40stam food. You are still nearly 6% away from being block capped. So you're betting on a chance that a boomkin is keeping up locust swarm 100% of them which would lead you 3% away from being block capped. When you factor in the fact that you want to be over 102.4% now-a-days due to deminishing returns behind miss you're >3% behind block cap.
Unmitigated hits are the new Crushing blows, imo.
Diminishing returns on parry is just plain horrible, especially because of the amount of item points it waste.
We are a blocking class, and yes I would agree that a lot of the tier gear is over valued with block rating, but it's not completely useless. We are Paladins, not Warriors, Not Druids. We don't have the epeen stam like they do, because we don't get hit as often.
Patchwerk is an excellent fight to compare avoidance values and the benefits of block capping. I wish I still had the parse from this fight where a Warrior with more avoidance and more hp, took more damage than me (while I was the heroic strike soak, which almost all of the time is suppose to take more damage)
Hoffski- you might want to check WotLK Polar's Easy Pre-Naxx Tank Gear List - TankSpot for level ~80 tanking gear. For level below 80, you will probebly want the crafted BS items as first priority (Till you find better, thats it).
Originally Posted by hellasaucy
What is your dodge rating in your prot set? I'll test this as well when I get home today, cause I'm curious as well to see as well now.
388 dodge rating on prot gear, around 15 or 30 in prot gear.
In tankspot (WotLK Diminishing Returns - Avoidance - TankSpot) I have encountered a guide that has a table about diminishing returns of expected numbers versus actual numbers, as well as more detailed info on DR.
With 400 dodge, I am expected to have roughly 10% dodge, and I will have roughly 9.5% instead due to diminishing returns. According to my gear, 388 dodge gave me 9.86% dodge instead of roughly 9.2% as expected from diminishing returns. Another small test I made was to remove a pure dodge item, then a pure def item (84 dodge, 41 def) and check if they affect each other. According to my UI, removing both was equal to the sum of the reduction from both of them.
This leads me to think that my UI is bugged, since it doesn't show me the real avoidance percent I have.
My alt is a prot paladin that I want to try and gear up for some Nax 10-man raids. I was holy at level 70 so I'm really not familiar with prot paladin gearing and tanking stats in general. Does anyone have or know of any website that has a decent list of pre-raid instance drops to gear myself out in preparation for Nax? I'm trying to figure out what I should spend badges on and what heroics I should farm for gear.
The OP of the thread your posting in outlines the basics quite well. When starting roughly from scratch the answer to your question is pretty straightforward. Your first priority is to be uncrittable of course and from there you just want to be snagging any ilvl upgrades you can. [Bolstered Legplates] are a really excellent starting piece, for example, and come from a very easy Heroic to boot. Just use wowhead like others have said to find the highest ilvl pieces with lots of defense that are available to you, you'll want to focus on rep rewards and entry level heroics if your gear is particularly bad.
According to the first post, any extra dodge grants less avoidance then the previous due to diminishing returns. This implies to my meager brain the second option. On the other hand, the wording on armor was a bit diffrent, which implied me to the first option.
The DR on armor and the DR on dodge/parry are entirely different effects. For what it's worth, I'm not satisfied with the way it's presented in the OP and I'm going to change it when I get a chance. So when conflicts arise between the OP and what people in this thread, believe the other posters.
Originally Posted by Xequecal
I'm aware of that, but in a raid setting you get over 250 extra agility from Earth totem/Horn of Winter, Kings, AGI/STA food, and Mark of the Wild. That plus Insect Swarm is going to pretty much cover the gap.
You're right; I can't believe I completely forgot about buffs. Which makes me realize that I'll need to put some basic buffing facts in the OP and ways to model them in TankPoints.
Originally Posted by Hoffski
My alt is a prot paladin that I want to try and gear up for some Nax 10-man raids. I was holy at level 70 so I'm really not familiar with prot paladin gearing and tanking stats in general. Does anyone have or know of any website that has a decent list of pre-raid instance drops to gear myself out in preparation for Nax? I'm trying to figure out what I should spend badges on and what heroics I should farm for gear.
I'm debating whether or not to include a basic "quick and dirty" tanking gear list in the OP for people who want to reach uncrittability ASAP at level 80. But for now, your best bet is to become familiar with Wowhead and all its filtering and sorting options.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
Yeah I use wowhead a lot but sometimes it can be a pain if you're searching for upgrades in pretty much every slot since I have terrible gear at the moment. I found this list on another forums for those also looking for a helpful list:
01/08/09, 2:38 PM
. Just another quick questionthat bugged me a little bit: I have done a little test on my paladin-I used a proc that gives 300 dodge rating with tanking gear and with retri gear. Both tests yielded the same amount of dodge (7.63%) on my screen. Does trinkets and such not affected by DR, I do not have enough dodge to get the DR to actually matter much, or I got some kind of bug?
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