That ShR comes within 5 seconds of the judgement, so it gets the libram effect. In a standard 6/9, every judgement will be followed by a ShR either 1.5 or 4.5 seconds later.

You are both correct:

Cathela, you are saying that you will always get 1 SHoR after any judgement. This is correct as was displayed.

XStoliX is saying that you cannot have EVERY SHoR gain the benefit of the judgement relic, which is also correct as he dislayed. Review his excerpt starting with 9 seconds when he casts judgement the 2nd time. You'll notice a SHoR immediately follows which proves your point that you always get 1 SHoR within 5 seconds from any judgement. However, the next SHoR (bolded) in the rotation comes later than 5 seconds from the judgement cast at 9 seconds, but before the next judgement at 18 seconds. There in lies his point, that ALL SHoRs cannot receive the judgement benefit. Note that another SHoR will happen within 5 seconds of the 3rd (bolded) judgement (exactly 4.5 seconds after it in fact, as the pattern restarts from the beginning).

You're missing something. The cycle repeats itself, replace the "etc" in your chart with abilities and you get:
which is the same as the beginning of your cycle.

Thanks Raencloud The issue is that with the rotation i posted there its not possible to be keeping up every shor under the judgement libram effect.



If you Judge and then SHoR when starting a rotation you can actually fit them all in.

This could actually work in theory, its at least how i do my rotation, the biggest problem being that you have 0.5 seconds left mostly or at least every 2nd judge.. which sort of starts sucking when latency gets higher or youre not very attentive, while moving your fingers might start bleeding. its very doable though.

EDIT: This is wrong and doesnt work there is at least one shor not affected by Libram







Are you blind or willfully ignorant? At 16.5 seconds in the rotation i posted in a table the SHOR youre hitting there does NOT benefit from judgement as its MORE than 5 seconds away.

The conclusion being:
At least one shor is always unaffected by the librams effect

Has it been discovered yet what the boss parry rate is? Dodge rate is 6.5%, but i see conflicting ideas of parry between 11 and 15%
If so could it be put on the OP?

Fairly sure it has been confirmed: http://elitistjerks.com/821641-post1853.html

TLDR 13.75% is the parry cap for expertise.

Although it is important to know, it's really not all the relevant for us prot pallies seeing as we only have two abilities that would be degraded by parry.

I am neither. I did, however, make an assumption - that you were concerned a judgement proc would be "wasted" because no Shield of the Righteous would make use of it. Apparently I was mistaken. You are correct, and as path411 has succinctly summed up the issue, I will not repeat it.

3.1 patch notes just hit MMO-Champion, and the Prot relevant changes are:

At a cursory glance, this seems to work against the previously stated attempt at streamlining Prot talents: We no longer have to spec into BOK, but I feel 5% more healing taken is going to be quite mandatory for any serious raid tank.

That being said, these notes are missing the supposed SA change, the supposed Silencing-shield changes and the perma-Plea change. As with most straight-from-Blizzard patch notes, I suspect that either the notes did not capture everything, or that the previously previewed changes are still slated for a future PTR build.

It has the perma plea change. Check Guarded by the Light.

50/100% chance to refresh Divine Plea duration when you hit an enemy.

On the same note, playing around with the mmo-champion talent calc, it seems that Reckoning, Ardent Defender, Guarded by the Light, and Judgements of the Just are now linked in a prereq chain (although it's not shown graphically via the arrows, each of the deeper talents has a "requires X points in <previous talent>" note if you don't have reckoning).

Thank you to Cavemanz and kharen, if we factor in the MMO-Champion Talent Calculator's changes:

The Imp. HOJ change was quite expected, and seems to be primarily aimed at Ret Paladins, who can now only get a 40 second cooldown on their stun.

The OHWS, AD, GBTL, JOTJ and SOTT changes were all part of the preview, and are thus completely expected. My only nitpick is that if we have to spec into Reckoning to unlock OHWS and AD, and spec into the new Divinity talent, then we probably gained as many mandatory points as we lost with the BOK and streamlining.

Perhaps the most worrying change is the loss of increased damage on SOTT, which may affect our threat scaling rather negatively.

EDIT: Glyph of Exorcism was changed to increase Exorcism damage by 20%. Depending on how the math works out, this might make it worth including in our rotations.

Glyph of Lay on Hands (Minor) was also changed to reduce Lay on Hands cooldown by 5 minutes, instead of increasing mana return by 20%. This makes it a strong contender to enhance our last-ditch cooldown.

EDIT PART 2: Blessing of Sanctuary no longer grants rage or runic power.

I'm sure some people will drop down to 53 points in protection to get 3 points in Crusade in the Ret tree. I don't think the 59 is really set in stone.

I assume one can drop the +5% healing and get rid of AD for that. However, I think Crusade is not going to be nearly as powerful in Ulduar as it was in Naxx. Most bosses look construct/giant themed so far.

Also, I just noticed that the new BoSanc wording no longer mentions rage or runic power.

Additional observations: SOTT doesn't mention a silence on ShoR as was mentioned in the earlier preview. Reckoning specifically mentions procs from blocked hits.

At the risk of doom&gloom-ing extremely preliminary info, it seems like we're losing flexibility from our tree with the linking of Reckoning>AD>GBTL>JOTJ and with the new mandatory Divinity. From the standpoint of a typical prot spec, we can potentially gain 2 points each from AD, 1hWS, and Imp HoJ, and 5 points from Kings, but lose 10 points to Reckoning and Divinity. Anyone who didn't take Kings before is unable to keep the talents they had. I suspect most are going to lose at least a point from somewhere.

I've grown very attached to Pursuit of Justice, and lacking a charge or death grip analog, I'd like to not lose it, so my eyes have turned to TBTL. I am still not seeing encounters where prot heals are preferable to prot dps, and in a world with dual spec, I don't expect to. Assuming a few extra white hits from Reckoning, how much tps/dps would we expect to lose from dropping TBTL?

Regardless, I love most of the changes we're getting. I'm just hoping to keep most of the utility of my current spec. I suspect I'll probably drop DG as well. It's been situational at best, and a hard cap on its benefit means it probably won't make the cut.

....wow. Anyone still have their old Tier 3 set? That would give it no cooldown at all.

Yeah that's going to have to go. I can see it now, holy paladins going from HL spam barely sustainable with best in slot gear to just equipping 4 pieces of T3 and speccing improved LoH for 20min - 12min - 4min -5min = -1min cooldown! And with the change to its cost (free to cast since Wotlk), spam LoH all night long!

Apparently, Shield of the Templar's damage buff to our three shield spells was baselined.

This is most apparent in MMO-Champ's comparison that SHOR now deals (130% BV + 520) damage, but Avenger's Shield and Holy Shield also got damage buffs, albeit in undisclosed amounts).

This would make most of the changes an overall buff to Prot Paladins, talent allocation headaches notwithstanding.

Don't forget that MMO-Champ is missing the new Tier 1 talent in the Protection Tree. I'm sure that plus other things is possibly what's causing the weird "Requires 5 points in Reckoning" bug. I doubt they would really want us to put 5 points into Reckoning just to get Ardent Defender.

edit: Ok, so I was slightly wrong on the HoJ talent allocation. We only get a 20 second cool down instead of the preferred 10 second. Still not as good as the Prot Warrior one imo for us. But at least between this and SotR we can *kind of* stop casters easier!

The question is still, will it be worth using BoSanctuary over BoKings? Mana won't be a problem with (more or less) 100 % up-time on DP in combat. The trade off for 10 % stats is 3 % dmg reduction though...

(Bad part is we still need to specc BoSanc to acces Holy Shield et.c if its benifits are infact inferior to Kings)

Keeping DP up does require a lot of GCD (and thus, TPS). And with our 5k-6k mana pools, it's not THAT much mp5. I see it more as an offtanking (like, make sure you're second on threat meter without actually getting hit) tool.

The way I see it, if mana becomes an issue, surviving isn't and TPS usually is important. I see no reason not to use BoSanc in such a case (so you can maintain consecration spam).

Using BoS over BoK would depend on how many paladins you have presumably.