The arguments about why we should get Titanguard are pointless. According to the stat weights, (spell power =1, stamins = 0.67), we would only get 42.24 stamina from the "best" stamina enchant. That's on par with the best spell power enchant. Even at 42 stam, it would be THE enchant for tanks through all of the content, quite possibly even through the next expansion. This is why people asked to not get the enchant put into the game.

You still have other options, AP, Titanium Chain, Potency, Mongoose, etc.

I just ran my last set of numbers from a PW kill through a spreadsheet. I'm 5/60/6, doing 969 rotation, no ShoR-bug-abuse.

SotP: 11,359 damage (what it actually gave me), 31k threat.

Convition: 11,851 damage (what Conviction would give, on average) 27k threat.

No idea how you're getting numbers so high - I only did 474k damage on the kill, and I think I blew Wings for fun (Prot warrior said he could catch me).

Anyway, same DPS, lower TPS, more talent points (since Conviction is 3rd tier and 2nd tier of ret is weak for Prot).

Maybe you were doing ShoR x 2? Conviction wins under that circumstance, especially if you go judge/shor/shor as your "rotation". Still doesn't explain how the seal numbers are so high. Judge/Seal damage is only 87k total for me. I'm doing 2.7k DPS, so I'm not slacking...

Actor	Total	%	Hits	Avg	Crit%	Max	Missed%	Mitigated%
Shield of Righteousness	94529	20%	18	3603	17%	8905	8.30%	3.70%
Swing (Physical)	93410	20%	98	577	21%	1568	11.70%	0.70%
Holy Shield	62674	13%	67	935	.	.	15.20%	4.20%
Hammer of the Righteous	60842	13%	11	2982	25%	5860	20.00%	1.70%
Blood Corruption	53168	11%	.	.	.	.	18.80%	3.70%
Consecration	46658	10%	.	.	.	.	1.80%	4.40%
Judgement of Corruption	32472	7%	14	2020	7%	4188	.	3.80%
Retribution Aura	22768	5%	78	291	.	.	2.50%
Hammer of Wrath	2438	1%	1	2438	.	.	.	8.70%
Exorcism	2210	1%	1	2210	.	.	.
Avenger's Shield	2009	0%	1	2009	.	.	.
Seal of Corruption	1449	0%	93	11	16%	22	10.90%	3.70%

Swing & Holy Shield numbers are higher than a normal boss due to Bloodlust uptime (~23%) and his Swing rate. I'm using Last Laugh, so this really is as high as "Swing" will ever get, and that helps Conviction some in the comparison, a more normal boss will drop Conviction to just under SotP for DPS.

>.< Ignore my maths for now as i am EXTREMELY tired and on the fly maths with paper is BAD. REALLY BAD. ESPECIALLY BAD!!!!

To be honest now im confused as to how your scoring such low numbers. Trav is usually offtank due to threat issues (our mages manage to pull off him regularly) and him being pretty bad but I allowed him to tank a patchwerk last week as maintank. He did a total of just under 600,000 damage without wings.



I on the other hand judged and shield slammed every 15 seconds and was threat capped the entire fight.



How long are you fights?

2m 40s to about 3 mins for Patchwerk. Lower end if DPS aren't stupid. Took 3m 05 two weeks ago after three melee DPS (both ret pallies) killed themselves on the pull by being retards.

A semi irrelevant question to the current discussion but, I was wondering how you often handle your rotation while bloodlusted. I generally try to eye when I have an extra gcd, but I'm always afraid of clipping my cycle. Is the main concerns having no time on gcd while maintaining Holy Shield? (Just rotate in Hammer of Wrath/exorcism if everything is on cooldown) Or do you normally notice a set point where you can easily throw in something extra?

I'm playing with 300 ms ping (Oceanic). Even though GCD check is client side, I've never noticed having a spare GCD under lust, though I probably go a lot closer to actually executing 969 in the minimum time.

If you can reliably squeeze in extras, some napkin-math says that you want to execute 69696X96969 - IE: do you standard 969 rotation and squeeze in long CD moves wherever you have a spare GCD.

In 3.0.3, I often use "bloodlust" as a trigger for popping wings (unless there's some reason to avoid Forbearance). Come 3.0.8 and the unlinking of the CDs, I would almost always use Wings with lust (and more or less on CD as well).

I'm curious as to why SoM/SoB is not as effective for tanking. The damage you take won't really matter with the heals you are getting. Has anyone done the math for stacking SoV and then switch to martyr? I'm just curious that's all. What makes SoV/SoC the best to use? When I have noticed the math suggests that difference is not that much.

Your math is off, if stamina costs less, wouldn't it seem logical to get more stamina from the same stat points?

The stamina enchant for the same item value as 63 spellpower would be ~94 stamina.

edit: to Knaughty:
You're undervaluating PoJ and HoTC though. I don't always raid with a ret pala (I know, it sucks) so putting up the debuff is worth a considerable amount of TPS already. Added with the heaven that PoJ is on pretty much everything, I don't see myself ever speccing less than 13 in ret.

And a minor point, splitting up posts in quotes to reply is frowned upon on this forum. Just a warning before you get an infraction for it.

I think at the moment our threat is so ridiculous and our survivability is unbeatable (or that the mobs hit for very little) that being able to take talents such as PoJ, HotC is without a doubt acceptable, hell you only need 53 points in the tree for the defensive talents and your still going to be miles ahead of people on the tps meters. In essence we have *hopefully* until ulduar content is here to find some unique workable specs. Id like to do the maths on whether crusade would be worth the talents and would something like this Talent Calculator would provide us with the exact same survivability and superior tps (provided you have a debuffbot). Experimentation is flavor in all things.

According to the original post, 1 spell power = 0.86 point, 1 stamina = 0.67 points. Yeah, my math was off. I read it as 1sp=1p, which it isn't. So since it's 0.86, that's 63/0.86=73.25*.67, which is 49.08. About 50 stamina then. Yeah, what was I thinking.

Either way, I'll just continue to use what I need at the time instead of worrying about getting more stamina.

Still off, its 63*0.86=54.18/.67 = ~80 stamina.
Or in words:
SpellpowerEnchant * ItemPointsForSpellPower = ItemPointsEnchant
ItemPointsEnchant / ItemPointsForStamina = StaminaEnchant

edit: for clarification, in my previous post I assumed SP to have a value of 1, stamina to have a value of 0.67. In this post I used the values provided.