If it stays as is, it would probably require a macro to remove DP and cast LoH.

Since Ret and Holy has low damage mitigation (no holy shield or lots of stamina), I am sure even with the nerfed SA those specs tanking will have lots of mana from taking so much damage, assuming they live to use it .

I tried tanking as ret (read: ret spec with my normal prot tanking gear), and took a shit load of damage. Granted, I only had to do this because it was VoA 10 man, and they didn't want to worry about picking up an actual OT. Whatever, shield macro + taunt= hold for 10-12 seconds, switch back to 2h. Wasn't terrible, but did need a bunch of heals

If you're worried about the DP 50% healing effect, just macro a copy of all your heals with "/cancelaura Divine Plea." That was the plan back when it was a 100%/50% debuff in beta.

I'm quite curious as to exactly what the changes are with SA. Just limiting the return? or if it will take the form of the *present* regen state of BoSanc (return mana on block, parry, or dodge). That would limit the benefit that Holy/Ret gain from it....

Well, it isn't 100% perfect, but the key upgrade there is that, casters won't start casting immediately when you pull and will run for those 3 seconds. That will speed up the LoS pulls because if you get out of LoS before those 3 seconds are up, then they will not stop to cast until you are in LoS again. Otherwise, casters would stand there casting for a few seconds before deciding to run after you.

Again, not a perfect thing, but definitely a plus.

Shifting the discussion a bit:

Being that currently Seal of Vengeance is our only seal for both aoe and single target mobs, I'm wondering if, coupled with the glyph, Seal of Righteousness will be better for single target mob tanking. Though I'd venture to say Vengeance will still be better at least for most aoe tanking for use with HotR.

I think the SoR glyph is intended more for holy paladins still, seeing as we'd give up 10 expertise for a minor bit of damage. Could be nice if CC was a worry though, since they can't seem to get SoV/Avengers shield behaving correctly.

My concern with the DP cancelaura macro, that is assuming you have mana to use. If they are buffing it this way because they want to remove SA entirely, cancelling divine plea will then seize our mana regen. Especially since they are taking away the mana cost reduction. In a single target I've still been occasionally mana starved with SA, BoSanc as it is, nuking divine plea for a quick LoH would just kill the day. Assuming they do something about the healing reduction, being able to shield slam a boss while providing flash heals while in Holy gear I don't think is OP at all, One would completely lack illumination, the spell power, the massive bonus crit, beacon, cleanse talent, and holy shock a holy paladin would provide.

Also, I was wrong earlier, I thought divine protection got nerfed with the change of Divine shield giving the 50% damage nerf. (yay tooltips!)

Why not just combine BoSanc's effect into the Righteous fury talent? Makes it feel like a much more 3/3 point worthy talent, and also fixes ret and holy's tanking mana regen problems. All those specs would be tanking are many light hitting mobs anyways.

Going 15 second without a shield slam or avengers shield means plea drops. If you're tanking an add across the room and dont get another one off you have to re-pop it. Add comes out, you drop low, healer is OOR, etc.

Im not saying its LIKELY, mainly just that it COULD pose a problem.

We don't know how it's implemented exactly, but the line in the pseudo-patchnotes seems to imply that all the spells formerly affected by GbtL would trigger the DP refresh. That would include Holy Shield, letting you keep perma-DP up even out of combat.

That said, I really don't think they're going to nerf SA all that severely; it's a baseline ability because it's supposed to let all paladins tank, and if they weaken it too much it undermines that.

It's also the culprit that made paladins actually viable in sunwell because of raid damage(Which blizzard specifically noted as the cause of the changes). A 4-8% mana buff similar to BoS folded into Righteous fury just seems like a much more elegant (And logical) solution, albeit somewhat gimping Ret.

I know many people here got to do twins, and relying on a sear to heal a fight is NOT very fun.

As of today after patch Divine Plea does not affect LoH or heals from JoL on other players. Also, the SoR glyph doesn't increase damage enough to compete with the AP scaling on JoV.