The Protection Paladin Field Manual (WoW-3.0/WotLK) - Page 39

Prinsesa · 02/11/09, 12:55 AM

Looking forward, how neatly (or messily) would the 15s Exorcism fit into our 96969 rotation, assuming the Undead/Demon limitation is indeed lifted and it becomes a standard weapon against everything?

• Chicken · 02/11/09, 6:02 AM

I suspect it'll see as much use as it currently already does in Naxx: Not much. It's not powerful enough as an ability to outdo either Hammer of the Righteous or Shield of Righteousness, so those two are out already. Holy Shield is also something you don't want to replace normally, though it'll be useful as a replacement on a boss which only spams non-interruptable spells. Judgements have additional benefits to using and are nearly as strong in damage done so are unlikely to be dropped for it either.

That leaves Consecration, Consecration is more powerful on average if the mob in question will stay within it's effect for the full 8 seconds, but on a boss which this isn't guaranteed to be the case it could be a useful replacement. The cooldown on Exorcism means you'd only be able to replace it once every other Consecration however. Grobbulus is a good example of a current boss in which you would be better off alternating Exorcism and Consecration.

It will definitely be useful on something freshly pulled though, since you can usually get in both an Avenger's Shield and Exorcism in that time, which is a nice headstart on threat.

Exorcism does have an additional downside compared to some of our other abilities in that it uses the spell hit rate and not the melee hit rate. It'll thus still have a small chance to miss even if you are melee hit capped.

Finally, there's the obvious utility aspect with [Glyph of Exorcism]. It'll still be an interrupt on the GCD, but it's an additional interrupt we can use on anything which can be very handy at times. That is of course assuming that Glyph remains unchanged for the new Exorcism.

Saltycracker · 02/12/09, 5:50 PM

I am getting misses/resists on the seal of vengeance dot. Is this eliminated/mitigated by adding more hit?

Hythloday · 02/12/09, 7:17 PM

I went over 7 or 8 WWS log parses, and couldn't find any resists on the DoT, so if you can share one that would be great. What I found was that the misses that come up on the summary are for applications of the DoT, and have no practical effect on threat generation.

• frmorrison · 02/13/09, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

I am getting misses/resists on the seal of vengeance dot. Is this eliminated/mitigated by adding more hit?

Partial Resists cannot be mitigated, it is caused by having 15 less weapon skill than the boss. I am not sure about misses, likely hit gear helps with that. However a miss doesn't affect much if you refresh the stack on the next hit.

lopht · 02/13/09, 3:27 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Looking forward, how neatly (or messily) would the 15s Exorcism fit into our 96969 rotation, assuming the Undead/Demon limitation is indeed lifted and it becomes a standard weapon against everything?

On single target fights, I'd replace Hammer of Righteousness by Exorcism whenever it's up.

Although I don't know if it's worth (threat-wise) because I don't know the threat values for Exorcism.

• promdates · 02/13/09, 4:26 AM

Originally Posted by lopht

On single target fights, I'd replace Hammer of Righteousness by Exorcism whenever it's up.

Although I don't know if it's worth (threat-wise) because I don't know the threat values for Exorcism.

According to my last Patchwerk kill, here is the average damage:

(+) Hammer of the Righteous	2,695
(+) Exorcism (r9)	        2,287

I'm still unsure of what the sp/ap coefficient is, but as of right now at the end of current t7 content, hammer beats exorcism slightly in threat. Each fight that I had used Exorcism on is less damage done than HoR, even a crit HoR dwarfs the Exorcism in damage.

• frmorrison · 02/13/09, 10:35 AM

Remember Exo is a spell, so is affected by spell hit, crit and crits for 1.5, and in 3.1 there will be shiny new tanking weapons to make Hammer hit harder.

Cathela · 02/13/09, 10:37 AM

As of 3.0, Exorcism had a 15% AP coefficient and a 15% SP coefficient. HotR has (effectively) a 28.5% AP coefficient in addition to scaling with weapon damage, so gear upgrades are going to favor HotR.

Saltycracker · 02/13/09, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Hythloday

I went over 7 or 8 WWS log parses, and couldn't find any resists on the DoT, so if you can share one that would be great. What I found was that the misses that come up on the summary are for applications of the DoT, and have no practical effect on threat generation.

I cross checked the dot misses with weapon misses and most of them don't line up.

I guess its hard for WWS to tell if the refresh misses, or if the actual damage from the DoT misses. I'm guessing this is a combat log or WWS bug because I looked through and sure enough patchwerk took a tick every 3 seconds, although there are plenty of partial resists which cant be done anything about.

This stuff is just weird:

20:01'41.326 Saltycracker melee swing hits Patchwerk for 1245 Physical. (Critical)
20:01'41.336 Saltycracker Seal of Vengeance misses Patchwerk.
20:01'41.527 Saltycracker Seal of Vengeance hits Patchwerk for 11 Holy.

20:01'19.101 Saltycracker Seal of Vengeance hits Patchwerk for 16 Holy. (Critical)
20:01'19.101 Patchwerk's Holy Vengeance is refreshed.
20:01'19.321 Saltycracker attack misses Patchwerk.

Wow Web Stats

Hythloday · 02/13/09, 12:06 PM

Maybe I was unclear - SoV application is, in effect, a 2-roll system - first you have to melee hit, then you have to spell hit the SoV dot. (To my knowledge it's the only spell like that in the game. Maybe someone can correct me?) So a missed melee swing can't miss the spell, but a hit one can.

SoV is applied from melee specials too, in particular Shield of Righteousness and Hammer of the Righteous.

spell="shield of righteousness" or spell="hammer of the righteous" or (event="swing_damage" and source="saltycracker") or (spell="holy vengeance" and event="spell_missed")

Matches perfectly, in my experience.

Saltycracker · 02/13/09, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hythloday

SoV is applied from melee specials too, in particular Shield of Righteousness and Hammer of the Righteous.

Ah, I forgot about those. Good catch.

Now I just wish that SoV would be an automatic hit if you hit with melee.

Kinda off topic, but I see Tankadins being the best scaling threat tanks in the game as out threat scales with stamina, weapons, shields, and strength.

• frmorrison · 02/13/09, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Saltycracker

I guess its hard for WWS to tell if the refresh misses, or if the actual damage from the DoT misses.

20:01'41.326 Saltycracker melee swing hits Patchwerk for 1245 Physical. (Critical)
20:01'41.336 Saltycracker Seal of Vengeance misses Patchwerk.
20:01'41.527 Saltycracker Seal of Vengeance hits Patchwerk for 11 Holy.

I am fairly certain DoTs cannot miss (once they are up on the target). It appears that what happened is at first SoV misses (seals and melee each roll for hit, and SoV uses spell hit/crit), then 0.2 seconds later SoV hit with one of your special attacks.

Edit: little slow

Nal · 02/13/09, 4:58 PM

There's three things going on with Seal of Vengeance/Corruption.

First, there's the damage portion after you've built to 5 stacks. This can miss.
Second, there's the tick of the dot. This cannot miss but can be partially resisted.
Third, there's the refresh/adding of the stack. This can miss. Or at least it used to miss in TBC when I was investigating the relative merits of hit rating for paladin threat.

So the miss in the combat log is most likely a miss on the refresh of the stack.

Mordekhuul · 02/15/09, 2:44 PM

When tanking serious bosses (not adds or trash or gimmicky bosses) do many of you jewelcrafter tanks seriously gear around trinkets other than [Essence of Gossamer] and [Figurine - Monarch Crab]?

I've been using both for a long time now, and just can't see anything else that is worth configuring my gear around, given the amount of effective health those two trinkets pack (and the crab's 60s cooldown avoidance ability of course).

I'd love to be proven wrong on at least the gossamer, and replace at least one of my trinkets with something other than an iLevel 200 blue, perhaps even one with defense so I could quit flirting so dangerously with 540 (right now I have a 27 defense gem on my wrists to stay above 540, instead of the 41 stamina gem I used to have there).

The only real option I see is [Repelling Charge], which tankpoints and Rawr both tend to throw way below the Crab and Gossamer in terms of overall benefit. I'm not married to the analysis of Rawr or TP, as both are just tools with assumptions built in, but they are an objective measure and I tend to trust them unless common sense shows a reason not to.